Logitech speaker wattage wrong?H

willhub

willhub

willhub

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Logitech speaker wattage wrong?

Hey, i read an article a week or 2 ago, on this article, they were talking about the Logitech Z560, that speaker system is something like 400W rms right?, they took this system apart, and found that the sattelites were tangband speakers, and they were actually 15W rms, when logitech states there 40W rms, and it said about that the amplifier was actually only producing something like 150w rms, and it was not capable of the 400w rms it says.

Now i am wondering if this is the case with the z5500, i was looking on Tangband's site, and i noticed some 3" speakers, looked exatly like the z5500's, and they were rated at 25W rms.

http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w3-871s.htm

The above one looks exatly the same as the sat speakers in the z5500, i am wondering if these are actually what logitech uses, as in the Z560 they were, infact on the back it said tangband, also, the Z560 actually seemed to have a 100W rms sub, the article showed a picture of the back of the driver too.

infact, it seems someone seems to have confirmed that the sat speakers in the z5500 are those by opening his sat up and looking, apparently thats only a greate thing, but 12w rms!??, aint that low, even if watts dont matter?

I know watts dont matter, and if the z5500 is only really like 250w rms, then it can only make it better really, as it would mean it really does pound for a 250w system.

But the thing i am trying to get my head around is, why would logitech lie about it?
 
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Doesn't suprise me in the slightest. They lie about it because people are impressed when they see 400W RMS or whatever and it produces more sales because of it. Thier values may be the ratings of the amplifiers, but the amps and powered from an insufficient supply and are not adequately heatsinked so will never produce thier full power (I could buy a 56W amplifier IC and power it from it's lowest voltage into a higher impedance driver. It'll produce about 10W, but I could claim 56W ;) ). This way the specs are technically "correct" but are actually quite decieving. I never believe PC specs for a second. 12W RMS is quite sufficient for the satellites and will sound "loud" to most ears (I build a 2x18W amp and into my B&W 602s it produces plenty of volume, never put it near full).
The only thing that suprises me slightly is that they used Tang band drivers, which are a pretty decent make :p
 
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Ah i see, well in a way, that makes me even happier with my z5500's, as they can go extreamly loud, the sub is very powerfull, and its low wattage, but then again, it increases the need for a better sond system, thats why i am saving up for a BK Monolith Subwoofer.

So maybe the z5500's sattelites are actually good quality, with quality sound, as the actual drivers seem good?
 
They are respectable drivers but I doubt the flimsy plastic casing really flatters them. Put them in a big horn enclosure like the guys over here do :D :

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=51

I'd definately put money into a good pair of floorstanders over a sub for now as a sub will only help the low end whereas floorstanders will give a good full range sound as well as decent bass output. I can imagine the BK Monolith seriously overpowering the satellites, it probably won't give a very balanced sound.
 
I was thinking of maybe getting 2 or 4 Bookshelf speakers and connecting them to the z5500, but the z5500 wont be able to power them, if it really were 500w aplifier then maybe, or would the z5500 just make the bookshelves sound crappy, as i would love a pair of bookshelves for it.
 
You could use ordinary bookshelf speakers with it, but I expect the Logitech amplification is far lower quality than even the cheapest budget amps (which are around £80, a full speaker set and 6 amps together for a little over twice that doesn't inspire much confidence). Also bear in mind the outputs will be high passed (no bass, probably around 100Hz roll-off). If you want better quality sound, just go the ordinary Hi-Fi route. Buying second hand is definately reccomended :)
 
but i cant afford much, it would only be a pair of bookshelves and an amp, then the BK monolith..., but i cant see me getting a better experience with music with just a pair of bookshelves, if anything, worse than the z5500, coz wont go loud, and no bass at all, untill i get the monolith that is...

Do you know if a 12" 300w RMS BK Monolith subwoofer would beat my z5500? or even 2 z5500 subs? coz i do like bass, was thinking of getitng an alpine type r 500w rms for 100quid and sticking it in a box and getting a BK plate amp, but the cost would come to the same as the Monolith, but maybe not as good sound quality as the monolith.

The monolith can go down to 17hz and do 20hz @ 100db, is that good?

In the attic, i have these really old speakers, i think they have 2 or 3 speakers in, one of which is an 8" i think, but they came with a really old mini hi-fi, you think they will be good?
 
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Look second hand for B&W DM602. They are standmounts (albiet large ones) that have good bass output. I have them myself, the S2 or S1s can be had for less second hand. Try them with a Rotel RA971 if you can get one since its one of the more powerful amps that can be had cheaply. See what you think of that then add a sub later if you want. I would be suprised if it wasn't as loud as the Z5500's and should have better quality and deeper bass too. Looking at £200-300. I think we can post listings for non competitor items :confused: so:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rotel-RA-971-...oryZ3280QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/B-W-602-S2-St...ryZ14991QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
i will proberbly buy off ebay, but i actually have zero money at the moment, blown it all on a Logitech G15 and a Sony Ericsson K750i.

Wait a min, you would not be surprised if it was not as loud as a z5500 sub, but had better quality bass? :s, you talking about the sub i want, or those b&w speakers?
 
I reckoned that B&W Rotel system would be louder than the Z-5500s and would have better quality bass. Thats before you add the sub which isn't needed normally but you seem to like your bass :D ;)

Bear in mind with those speakers you have more cone area and more enclosure volume between them than the Z-5500 sub; simply because there are 2 of them (14" and 22Litres total). They have good sensitivity too at 90db and will apparently take 120W each (I wouldn't count on it, they look like they'd breach thier excursion before that power level since they are going like jackhammers with just a few watts ;) )
 
Ok, i do find it hard to belive that those 2 B&W speakers would beat the z5500, i mean, i know it comes in an all in one system, and its for pc's, but it cant be that weak, it can totally shake the hoouse up, and the bass really can hurt my ears depending what i am playing, the z5500 has a 10" sub with 4" port on the side, and yea, i loooovveeee bass :p, thats why i was thinking of buying car audio for my room (Alpine Type R), but thought nah coz the quality wont be good.

Hell if those 2 speakers could beat a z5500 with bass, then i wouldent need a sub lol, i took the grill off of my z5500, and it can do 1.5" excursion, i have managed to bottom the sub out, but the bass was well over what it should normally be for the sound level i had it at, the system is loud enough, i can hear it from down the street at the hall about 200 meters away when i have the window open, but when it comes to some hip hop or r&b songs, i just feel a sudden urge to turn the bass up so loud that it overpowers everything, and thats why i need the new sub, but those b&w speakers, 6 or 7" midrange drivers? vs a 100w or so 10" sub?, i know it sounds like i am trying to say the b&w's are crap, i can understand them totally woops my system for pure sound quality in every aspect including bass, but loudness, of bass, dont belive that, loudness or midrange and highrange, well yea as there bigger. Maybe if they were designed to just be subwoofers with thick surrounds then i can see it beating the small z5500 sub though.

if these bookshelf or standmount speakers w/e they are can beat the z5500, then, i might aswell sell the z5500, but would that cover the cost for a pair of them and the amp, but i am expecting them to throw more bass then the z5500 if i put for example a bass test track on like, worlds deepest bass, that shaked the whole house, and when downstairs my z5500 shook the windows like hell.
 
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It depends what kind of bass you like. PC speaker setups tend to produce boomy, wooly bass which peaks between ~60-80Hz. A proper subwoofer will be cut-off above 80Hz at the maximum, preferably lower. You will also notice that hi-fi speakers will produce a nicer, tighter sound, and amped suitably, would probably go lower than a cheap PC setup subwoofer (which can sound loud with little power because it is ported and tuned quite high...)
 
Hey, i think my z5500 is the loudest at around 35-45Hz, tested a test tone between those frequencys and it was vvv loud.

Anyway, i wrote to logitech, and i just got a reply.

Customer (William Thompson) 12/03/2006 02:34 AM
Hi.

I am emailing about the wattage on logitech pc speakers, is it all lies?

I found an article on the internet, someone practically took apart the Logitech Z560, they found the sattelites to be i belive 15w rms tangband drivers, and the sub to also be a tangband 100w rms driver as he too a photo of the back of the driver, if i look on the tangband site, it looks like this is the driver used in the z560:
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w8-670n.htm, as you can see, its rated at 70w rms, and logitech rates it at 188w rms?

And it seems like the Logitech Z5500 (500w RMS) is actually only 248W RMS, as i have found the same drivers used in the z5500 sattelites on tahngband site, and they are 12w rms, a long way from the listed 62w rms dont you think?

http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w3-871s.htm

Seems the subwoofer is tangband too, i wouldent be surprised if that was 70w rms too.

I know wattage doesent mean anything usually, and it an just be a marketing gimic, and that the tangband drivers in the z5500 sattelites seem to be very decent, but the point is, why has logitech lied?, infact with the z560, it was found that the amp couldent even handle 400w rms..

So, why the lies?


Response (Maryjiji John) 12/07/2006 03:26 AM
Dear Mr. Thompson,

Thank you for contacting Logitech's Electronic Technical Support.

I understand that you have found that the Z-560 and the Z-5500 speakers are not producing the advertised watts of sound.

I would like to inform you that the Z-560 and the Z-5500 speakers are tested and certified to produce the advertised watts of sound.

These speakers are THX certified. You can refer to the URLs given below which explains the THX certification:

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/p...EN,CRID=473,parentCRID=278,contentID=5190#thx

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/p.../GB/EN,CRID=473,parentCRID=278,contentID=6365

Should you have any other queries, please do not hesitate to write back to me.

If you have any additional questions regarding your product, please feel free to visit our website at http://www.logitech.com

Kind Regards,

Maryjiji John
Logitech Europe SA
European Customer Support


~~Edit** updated

Customer (William Thompson) 12/07/2006 10:42 AM
Hi, thanks for replying.

If the speaker system is really taking 500w rms, then it would seem like the sattelites are been overloaded, as i provided a link to tangband speakers, and you can see the speakers the z5500 uses in the sattelites, and there clearly not 62w rms, there 12w rms and 25w rms max, so whats the deal, what drivers exatly is the logitech using in the Z5500's sattelites?

And any information on the Driver used in the Z5500 sub? who makes it? model number? tech specs etc..?
 
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A speaker's power handling capacity is meaningless on its own, without any other figures to accompany it.

Plus, the amplifier in the whole setup is probably the most crucial part - just because your speakers can handle 100W RMS, doesn't mean the included amp is producing 100W RMS (at whatever frequency and THD it was measured...).
 
I know watts done mean anything, but the fact is, those sattelite speakers never, ever, ever produce 62w, logitech lied, thats the main part of it, they say the speakers are actually 62w rms, when they are 12w rms, thats a big difference, sure, even if they were 62w rms, they proberbly would not even get to 62w.
 
willhub said:
I know watts done mean anything, but the fact is, those sattelite speakers never, ever, ever produce 62w, logitech lied, thats the main part of it, they say the speakers are actually 62w rms, when they are 12w rms, thats a big difference, sure, even if they were 62w rms, they proberbly would not even get to 62w.
Click to expand...


no they didnt. they said the amp produced 62w rms per channel for the sats. as far as that figure goes, they didnt quote any distortion figures so they could well be telling the truth. it may be unlistenable, but they'd be telling the truth.
 
but surely if you turned it up so loud, say Boost 22, and the amp decided to produce 62w rms and give it to the speakers, it would blow them ? :s
 
You generally have to go well above a speaker's power handling for a long time to damage it. You'd hear it first...

In any case, a more powerful amp is better than an amp not powerful enough - it prevents signal clipping. Clipping is very bad because it effectively cuts the top and bottom of your main sine/cosine wave music, yielding square sine waves. Square sine waves are very bad because they are basically a combination of an infinite number of normal sine and cosine waves of various increasing frequencies. The corners of the square wave correspond to very high frequencies and these are what will damage your speakers (usually the tweeters) if you push your amp into "clipping". :)
 
i could run my z5500 system at full boost and there was barely any distortion and the speakers survived hours of pounding.
 
10% THD pretty much invalidates the rated output! And it's not even a full frequency sweep. So much for THX for PC gear. They used to mean something for proper HT seperates.

Sitting here with 1.4KW RMS power into 8Ohm, all channels driven, 0.05%THD. :p that doesn't seem much compared to the Logitechs, which just shows you the Logitech's are overblown ratings :rolleyes:
 
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