Looking for a 5.1 Amp that.....

PinkFloyd · 11 Nov 2007 at 22:02

Can allow me to setup my speakers like this:

I've got a stereo amp and bookshelf speakers (which are also going to be upgraded at some point in the future) which I want to be using as front speakers.

I've got multiple phono inputs on the stereo amp, so Ideally I'd want a 5.1 amp that has phono output for speakers. But I'm not sure if you can get them. Any ideas?

Alternatively, Is it possible for me to wire the speaker outs straight into phono inputs in the back of my amp?
If this is the case I'd be more specific on the amp I'd want, slim as possible, a remote would be very nice to have. The main music input into the amp would be my pc from my Xifi card, and it would be used for gaming more so than films. A digital input for consoles to plug into would be handy aswell.

Look forward to any responses.

darreny · 12 Nov 2007 at 00:17

if im understanding what you mean correctly, you just want a 5.1 amp with pre-outs for the main channels

badbob · 12 Nov 2007 at 00:27

Sounds he wants a 5.1 amp, use that for centre, sub and rears, keeping his stereo integrated amp powering his mains. Pre-outs from the av amp to the stereo integrated amp.

In other words yup correct just needs pre-outs for the L/R channels. Ideally you'll want to have a stereo integrated amp that'll act as a poweramp in that mode, otherwise you'll need to set volume on the stereo amp everytime in "av" mode or it'll be out.

PinkFloyd · 12 Nov 2007 at 01:31

badbob said:
Sounds he wants a 5.1 amp, use that for centre, sub and rears, keeping his stereo integrated amp powering his mains. Pre-outs from the av amp to the stereo integrated amp.

Yeh that's it

Atleast I know what its called now, might have a bit of luck trying to find one now I know they exist. Can anyone recommend any particular amps?

I'm currently using a Cambridge Audio A1 as my stereo amp. Having to set the volume on the Stereo Amp so it is inline with the Surround isn't a problem. Once its aligned I can then use the 5.1 amp for my volume control. I presume the volume would scale up and down in line?

Corasik · 12 Nov 2007 at 11:03

The large majority of AV amps have pre-outs, to allow upgrading of the built in amplifiers. (Or at least they did when I was looking).

As you correctly say, you set the A1 so the volume matches the surrounds, and then use the surround amp volume control as the master volume while watching surround material.. Just remember that when you switch back to stereo you'll have to rememeber to turn the volume back down.

Yamaha used to make rather a nice little amp for exactly this purpose the DSP E800, instead of the usual setup with a bunch of amps, it only contained 3 amplifiers (centre, surround-L and surround-R). It was expected for the owner to use his 2 channel stereo system to drive the fronts, and it worked pretty nicely.

hardc0re_tid · 13 Nov 2007 at 15:58

why not get an av-receiver which has stereo channel built in.

on my yamaha htr-5640 rds i have A & B

A is fronts, center, rears and sub

B is for stereo

badbob · 13 Nov 2007 at 16:14

hardc0re_tid, I think you have to RTM. Speaker "A" is left & right. Speaker "B" is right & right. It's just a switch.

If you want 5.1 you don't connect your centre, rears and sub to the A or B terminals

darreny · 15 Nov 2007 at 00:11

as said above the A-B settings are really for multiroom sound so you can switch to B and drive a pair of speakers in say the kitchen or the can be used for easier bi-wiring and setting the switch to both.

to pink floyd, if youre wanting to keep your cd player and other audio equipment hooked into the stereo amp it will mean you have to keep readjusting the volume for movie playback, simpler way is to hook everything upto the av amp and just run it thru although this means you have to turn the av amp on when you just want to listen to music and the overall sound may deteriate slightly.

badbob · 15 Nov 2007 at 00:18

overall sound may deteriate slightly.

I would say considerbly.
As for amps with direct poweramp, there's the Audiolab 8000S, Tag Mclaren 60iRV. I know there are others but unsure of exact make/models.

PinkFloyd · 15 Nov 2007 at 10:35

Is there anything in the sub £200 area that pre outs on it.
I've had a look on one retailer site, and not seen anything, and I just don't know where to start looking in the whole scheme of things

hardc0re_tid · 17 Nov 2007 at 09:42

badbob said:
hardc0re_tid, I think you have to RTM. Speaker "A" is left & right. Speaker "B" is right & right. It's just a switch.

what are you on about?

A = front L&R rear L&R, front centre and rear centre
B = L&R for stereo setup

think you need to read the manual, the one for my receiver

badbob said:
If you want 5.1 you don't connect your centre, rears and sub to the A or B terminals

that really makes sense, if you dont connect your centre and rears or sub you will end up with a stereo setup, not a 5.1 setup

denon · 17 Nov 2007 at 11:06

you get pre outs on most mid range amps, if you buy second hand most amps for £200 should have them

badbob · 17 Nov 2007 at 11:40

You're entirely wrong with the connections on your amp. RTM! YOU DO NOT CONNECT ANYTHING BUT LEFT AND RIGHT TO THE A/B OUTPUTS.

Do not drive both A/B speakers at the same time due to impedance issues, the amp could trip out. Here is a correct wiring method, if you've done it differently you're wrong. I've setup enough AV systems and into AV a big way. Not included rear center as most people don't have that. Subwoofer isn't on that pic as it's RCA low-level.

Btw I have a Lexicon MC-1 with five mid-end 2 channel poweramps. 7.1 system, front three are bi-amped.

that really makes sense, if you dont connect your centre and rears or sub you will end up with a stereo setup, not a 5.1 setup

hmmm so what do you think centre and rear speaker outputs are for??

hardc0re_tid · 17 Nov 2007 at 13:39

badbob said:
You're entirely wrong with the connections on your amp. RTM! YOU DO NOT CONNECT ANYTHING BUT LEFT AND RIGHT TO THE A/B OUTPUTS.

Do not drive both A/B speakers at the same time due to impedance issues, the amp could trip out. Here is a correct wiring method, if you've done it differently you're wrong. I've setup enough AV systems and into AV a big way. Not included rear center as most people don't have that. Subwoofer isn't on that pic as it's RCA low-level.

Btw I have a Lexicon MC-1 with five mid-end 2 channel poweramps. 7.1 system, front three are bi-amped.

hmmm so what do you think centre and rear speaker outputs are for??

atm im only running a stereo setup off A.

both A & B can be used at the same time as long as the impedance of the speakers on the A/B main are all 8ohm. the amp can do a maximum of 4ohm minimum!

EDIT: tell me this, if not not supposed to run A&B at the same time then why does the amp let me do so?

i can have a choice of

A on B off
A on B on
A off B on
A off B off

surely if the amp wasnt ment to be able to do so yamaha wouldnt let both sets of speakers be run at the same time?

badbob · 17 Nov 2007 at 13:44

What av amp is that? Most av amplifiers cannot handle 4Ohm speakers, and I wouldn't have anything less than a £800 av amp for 4 ohm speakers.

surely if the amp wasnt ment to be able to do so yamaha wouldnt let both sets of speakers be run at the same time?

oh dear. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

darreny · 17 Nov 2007 at 13:50

as i said before A+B are for stereo setup as either for multiroom sound or easier bi-wiring. they have nothing to do with centre, rears and sub its just you can only have 5.1 running in conjuction with the A set engaged or both A+B if bi-wiring

it does seem you explained it wrong in your post hardcore as i also got what you meant wrong

hardc0re_tid · 17 Nov 2007 at 13:52

the switch is set to the left on my setup but this proves that A and B can be used simultaniously, on my amp anyway

badbob · 17 Nov 2007 at 13:57

Do you have tests showing difference between 8Ohm and 4Ohm loads? Low end Yamahas are well known to inflate there ratings, you need to go up the range ie Yamaha A1 to get quality amplification. If output drops from 8 to 4ohm then you know the amp is incapable of driving those speakers, it should at least half or ideally double the wattage (all the while having only slight amounts of higher THD)

I have had owned Yamaha av amps, pretty lousy with my 4ohm centre speaker. A 50W Arcam Alpha 8 was far better driving it.

proves that A and B can be used simultaniously,

It proves you can use A&B, not that you should- after all it's just a switch. I have a Yamaha with A&B (sounds lousy alone with single pair of speakers comoared to a 50W poweramp) and wouldn't use both at the same time. But it doesn't prove it can drive 4ohm speakers at all. Got any in depth testing? Like I said, most budget av amps just topple over when given a 4ohm load.