Looking for a new car - are we doing something wrong?

Marvin

Marvin

Marvin

Soldato
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27 Nov 2009
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Maidstone, Kent
Currently helping my mother to look for a car to replace her R56 Mini Cooper S, and I'm starting to get the impression that no dealers are actually serious about selling slightly more performance-oriented cars.

She's looking at new/ex-demo cars, that are generally comparable to the Mini, and up to around £25k.

We have so far looked at and have test driven:
  • New Mini Cooper S
  • Audi S1 Quattro
  • Renaultsport Clio
  • Nissan Juke Nismo

and today, as a slightly different choice, the Subaru BRZ - after she tried my Z4 Coupe to see whether she'd like the long bonnet/RWD layout.

Our problem is that no-one will offer decent test drives. The Subaru was the most exasperating - I've done a route map on Google to give an idea:

Google Maps

We took separate test drives as the salesman insisted on accompanying and she got the return leg of that trip - or about 3.5 miles. I did slightly better and did both ways, but said to the salesman that I had a route in mind, which is about 15 miles (including actual decent roads) and would take no more than 30 minutes - he actually just refused. So, ended up doing that route above.

Upon returning to the dealership, he then tried to actually sell the car, on the basis of a collective 20 minutes driving and about 10 miles. When we prompted to book in a longer test drive (basically said we'd have to hire a BRZ in order to make a decision), he nearly said that as we weren't buying today he wasn't interested in wasting any more time with us. Didn't look at the Mini which he originally said he would give a part-ex valuation on either.

The thing is, that the above, whilst the worst of the dealerships we've come across, is pretty much like every other dealer. Every dealer has insisted on an accompanied demo, that has been at best 10-15 miles and about 20-30 minutes tops.

How can you make a decision about a £25k car on the basis of 20 minutes experience? Are we being unreasonable or are these dealers clearly taking the mick? All the above have been pre-booked test drives. I'm wondering whether the problem is none of these companies deal with purely performance-oriented cars, and maybe "normal" people do buy cars on the basis of looking in the showroom, then a short test drive?

TL;DR: Dealers giving 15 min "test drives" on £25k hot hatches etc - acceptable or not?
 
Welcome to the short sighted world of car sales. Many salesman are simply not interested if you won't generate them a sale same day.
 
Yep that's pretty much my experience of most dealers, one local Ford garage (who now also does Subaru..) won't let you take a test drive until you've 'discussed figures' on the car.. which needless to say i walked away at that point and have never been back there.

One multi marque dealer we've bought a few cars from have just given us the keys and left us to it so we've taken ourselves on a decent drive on a combination of roads, hence us buying several cars from them over the years. This kind of service is however few and far between.
 
The last couple of cars I've bought, I've been accompanied by the salesmen and taken on decent routes involving a variety of different types of roads without feeling rushed, and after the test drive they said "I'll leave you to have look round the car, get acquainted, think about it etc, come in and find me when you're ready" - and this was for cars costing nowhere near £25k! If I had received poor attitude as above, I'd have just walked away.
 
We are looking at buying a 2 year old polo at the moment and VW have been nothing but excellent, last few times i've been given the keys and been told not to be longer than an hour.
 
[TW]Fox;27500332 said:
Welcome to the short sighted world of car sales. Many salesman are simply not interested if you won't generate them a sale same day.
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The thing is nearly everybody knows that. So chances are their bosses also now this.

Do they think they also think the same.

I went to test drive a Kia for the mrs a few years back and the salesman was exactly the same. He asked if we were going to deal today I said no we've just started to look. His attitude changed immediately.

Now I understand you have professional time wasters. But i'd bet genuine customers outweigh them.

As a result I didn't buy a Kia and I would never use that dealer again.

However my experience of Merc and BMW was polar opposites to that Kia dealer, BMW gave me a car for the day, And Merc...Well to be honest 10 mins in a SLK55AMG and I bought it.
 
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I've found a mixed bag, with some HUGELY arrogant...idiots, is the only word for it, and some others who are genuinely willing to help you out.

The most frustrating was when I arranged to see a specific sales person about a specific car at a specific time, and when I arrived at the garage someone had gone out in that car to lunch and the sales guy couldn't have cared less because in all likelihood I wasn't buying that very same day. Needless to say I won't ever be going there again, despite it being the closest dealership to my office.
 
Had a very good experience test driving a Fiesta ST at a Ford garage recently. Guy gave me a reasonable test route and even asked if I had had a long enough drive/time in the car. He then spent a good deal of time showing me everything the car did and let me have a play and look around it, sit in all the seats etc. Was there for nearly 2 hours and the sales guys attitude was always very good.

No horrible patronising sales talk either which I loathe.

On the flip side, over a year ago now, my gf and I went to look at a used Ford Focus for her at a Ford garage and the guy made me want to punch him. Sales clichés here there and everywhere. Tested the air con and it didn't work (compressor did not engage) and I said that would need to be fixed: " we will have a look at it...." ...brilliant.

Then before even talking about figures or test driving the car, he started to try and sell us gap insurance, paint protection, interior fabric protection etc.....on a 7 year old Focus worth under £4k! I had to stop myself from laughing at this point!

Needless to say, we walked away....
 
I think you're being pretty reasonable.

I've only bought 1 car from a local garage (it's not a main dealer but only stocks decent and performance cars) and despite being only about 21 they just asked me to sign some insurance forms and then handed over the keys so I could take it out alone.

That was only for a second hand Fiesta ST but the same garage did the exact same with a 911 for my old man.

Sounds like the garage I'm talking about isn't the norm from the replies in here though :(
 
I've had both sides of the spectrum, those like you described in the OP, but also those that said, "the tank's full, here are the keys, go knock yourself out..." (pretty much).

I'd walk away from them, and just find another dealer, and be up front to the next dealer and explain the experience you had, stating you're not going to make a decision on a 3mile test drive, so before you waste one another's time find out what can they offer you.
 
This is one of the many reasons I hated being a car salesman, the dealer principle and sales manager were not interested in customer service, they just wanted cars sold and people turned round to see the business manager for a PCP contract.

If you weren't buying there and then, we had to try and establish this earlier on so we didn't 'waste' time with customers and get onto people who would buy that day. If they weren't buying that day you'd be pressured to book them in for an appointment when they were further along the process and almost ready to buy.

Woe betide you if you went against them either, they would then start hovering around your desk when with customers making you feel uncomfortable for spending any more time with them.

As someone who wanted to give fantastic customer service it just wasn't the right fit for me.

I once spent a whole afternoon 2-5 along with the business manager on a Saturday with a couple who were shafted by BMW on an X5 PCP deal to get them out of it and into a Land Cruiser, and they didn't buy at the end of the day, and because I'd tied myself and the BM up all afternoon I got some crap for that, but guess what, they came back on the Monday and bought an Land Cruiser from me because they appreciated how much we had done and the deal we had put together for them to get out of the X5 deal. Still, not a word of well done from the DP, even though it was £45k+ worth of car sold.
 
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I remember when my mum was looking for an approved used BMW having so many roadblocks put in front of us and slimy salesmen trying to convince her of things she didn't want/need. Cooper BMW Colchester wanted to accompany us on the test drive (which is completely fine), but we were only able to drive their prescribed route.

IIRC it consisted of a few minutes of town driving, then a couple of miles down the some of the smoothest roads in Colchester ("See, runflats aren't bad!"), then 5 minutes of dual carriageway, followed by "How was that?! Shall we start looking at the figures????". We politely declined, and he then spent the next few weeks phoning about new 320d and 335d's that he'd got in. It was just stupid.

We then went to Elms BMW Cambridge and dealt with a very good salesman indeed. We felt like we trusted him, he was a good laugh and not like the typical smarmy car salesman we had experienced at Colchester BMW. Within a couple of hours we had bought the car, due in no small part to his personality and sales support.

I see what anticonscience says above, but do managers not realise that if you get the trust of the person you are trying to sell to, you can sell a lot more and both you and the customer will walk away happy? This requires time.
 
The rise in popularity of broker sites like Broadspeed mean that car salesmen have to be much much more warey of their customers nowadays; if they feel that a customer is just there to kick tyres or test drive the car before going off to purchase on the internet then they'll very quickly switch off.

My dad takes this approach..he will basically ask if you're in a position to buy today and if not then he's not interested. It may seem like a harsh way of doing things but it works for him as he consistently outsells everyone else in the company and he only works part time hours!
 
Why would he waste your time with you when someone will pop along in the next couple of days who knows that's the car he wants.

That's the way he sees it. And let's not underestimate the huge amount of timewasters nowadays.

If there way of business doesn't work they will go out of business. Simple as that.
 
scratch said:
The rise in popularity of broker sites like Broadspeed mean that car salesmen have to be much much more warey of their customers nowadays; if they feel that a customer is just there to kick tyres or test drive the car before going off to purchase on the internet then they'll very quickly switch off.

My dad takes this approach..he will basically ask if you're in a position to buy today and if not then he's not interested. It may seem like a harsh way of doing things but it works for him as he consistently outsells everyone else in the company and he only works part time hours!
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The problem with this approach is that it's a short sighted approach that benefits the salesman personally but not the business long term. A car dealer is more than just a place to buy cars - every customer you **** off by treating them like that is a customer that could potentially take the much more lucrative servicing and repair work somewhere else.

The margins on workshop work far exceed those on actually selling the cars.

But this always seems to be missed. The focus is on shifting numbers today not building a rapport and generating a long term customer for tomorrow which in the long term is likely more profitable.

Many years ago I went into my local dealer for a nosey around. I wasn't in a position to buy, I was just there to kick tyres and think about what I might have. I was treated with respect and courtesy. This dealer has now had almost 10 years of service and repair work on which I suspect they have made healthy margins.

This doesn't mean you should entertain obvious walter mitty types but qualifying ought to go beyond 'Can I flog this chump a car today'.

As for the broker thing - somebody who finds a deal on a brokers website and then pops down to test drive the car is almost certainly going to buy a car. They might not set out to buy a car from you. You have two choices:

a) Tell them to do one. They purchase the car from a broker. They remember you told them to do one. They may or may not have a negative opinion of the business and elect to go elsewhere with the broker purchased car when it requires an overpriced service.

b) You treat them with the same level of respect you would anyone else. Here is somebody who is better than the average customer who walks in - they've reached the point at which they have decided to purchase. By not giving them the short shrift the worst you do is have them leave thinking your branch was decent. They'll return with the car in future. But actually there is far more opportunity here - you are, after all, a salesman. You should be able to convert at least *some* of the broker customers into your customers - they are buyers, after all. They want the product. All they need now is the right package. You can try and offer them this. Sure, some will sod off because you can't get within £10 of the broker but many will not. And if your competitor can supply a car at the broker price - hence paying the broker commission for the sale - you could have a go too...

I guess thats the difference between an order taker and a salesman. The order taker will lose the sale to the broker every time so presumably has no interest in dealing with anyone who doesn't walk in offering list price with supaguard. The salesman, however, will clinch that sale at least some of the time.

Everyone who walks in* could be a potential sale, just some need a bit more work than others.

*Maybe not the guy in the N reg Saxo.
 
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I too have had both ends of the spectrum, from short 10 minute city drives, to 36 hours with a new Discovery. I didn't buy that car, but you can be damn sure that when I am ready to pull the trigger on one, he will be my first port of call (it also helps that I have bought my last 4 cars from the group that now owns that dealership).

To be brutally honest, I find the service MILES better from the dealerships who sell a higher class of car. My rapport with my local BMW and Audi dealerships is excellent, as they know anytime I walk in there, they at least have a chance of selling me a car.

When looking at the likes of the Mondeo or similar, it was a different story. In all honesty though, I perhaps don't dress like I drive a £50k motor, but I do drive one, and some of the salesmen from the likes of Ford dealerships have just looked down on me as if I can't afford their Mondeo. Of course, I could, but as the Mondeo in the spec I wanted had the same deposit and monthly figures as the 530d I actually bought, it was a no brainer. But they obviously weren't aware of this, and never even offered me a test drive of one.
 
[TW]Fox;27503396 said:
b) You treat them with the same level of respect you would anyone else. Here is somebody who is better than the average customer who walks in - they've reached the point at which they have decided to purchase. By not giving them the short shrift the worst you do is have them leave thinking your branch was decent. They'll return with the car in future. But actually there is far more opportunity here - you are, after all, a salesman. You should be able to convert at least *some* of the broker customers into your customers - they are buyers, after all. They want the product. All they need now is the right package. You can try and offer them this. Sure, some will sod off because you can't get within £10 of the broker but many will not. And if your competitor can supply a car at the broker price - hence paying the broker commission for the sale - you could have a go too...
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Indeed.

I just ordered a new car and was always going to go with a broker. However, when i called the broker i felt a little put off by the guys attitude (a bit , "well you will never see a deal like this again, you better order now as it is a 12-14 week wait etc). I also preferred the idea of getting the car from a dealership around the corner. I just have a feeling that if the car was a lemon, taking it to the place you actually bought it from would help as they would be the place that actually sold you the car in the first place.

I therefore visited my two local Ford dealer chains. Both the salesmen i spoke with were very good, very courteous and didn't patronise me or give me any stupid sales talk. I simply said that if they can match the broker price, i would buy the car from them. One of them couldn't (still £500+ more), but one of them managed to match the broker (by letting me have the options i wanted either at cost price or free) and as i was treated with professionalism, respect and politeness, i have ordered the car from them.

I am very happy i have as they seem like a very good outfit and i hope i will be treated well by them throughout my ownership of the car.
 
It becomes a bit of a catch 22 situation. How does one get into a position to buy 'today' without first experiencing the car and deciding whether they want to buy it or not? Surely you have to build the desire in the customer first and convince them that yes, its the VW Golf they need not that Focus Titanium they've got on the shortlist.

How are customers supposed to do the right amount of research to decide which car is for them if salesmen are of the opinion that if you can't do the deal today you should get lost and are a 'timewaster'?
 
We're thinking of getting a Yeti... went to the Skoda dealer at the weekend and within a few minutes speculative chat we were just offered the keys to go for a test drive on my own - no time/distance restrictions stated (but it only had 35 miles of fuel onboard!).
 
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