Looking for advice on a Home Cinema System

RDB85

RDB85

RDB85

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1 Dec 2017
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58
I am looking at getting an Amp and some Bookshelf Speakers for my 4K TV which I am looking at getting in a few months.

I like the look of Q Acoustic and I have heard good things about Yamaha as an Amp. I am thinking a trip to RS is probably my best bet.

But if someone could help me with suggestions that would be brilliant.
 
Are you wanting to go 5.1? Now or later?

If you just fancy 2.1 or straight 2 channel, I have just bought a Yamaha AS301 amp for £160 off ebay (new, from Peter Tyson, but had a 20% off, normal price is around £200), and it is good enough for my needs. But then I am using it for my PC. I am taking an optical out from the PC, as the Yamaha has an optical in, it also has a subwoofer pre-out, that I plan on using at a later stage. It also has 2 sets of outputs for speakers. So it is capable of driving 4 speakers plus a sub. It won't do surround sound obviously, but you could fill a room with sounds using the 4 speaker option.

Mine is driving a pair of B&W M1 speakers, which are small, but do give out an amazing sound, and once coupled with a sub, should work a treat for my purposes at least. They are around £150 each (The M1's), new, but you should be able to pick them up second hand for around that price for the pair I'd imagine.

If you want bigger speakers, I have both the B&W 686's and 685's (the 685's being larger). And either set would also make a fine addition. I love each of them. I am using the 685's as fronts and the 686's as rears in my 5.1 set-ups. Expect to pay around £300 - £350 a pair for the 685's, and about £100 less for a pair of 686's.

You can pick up a B&W ASW sub second hand for around £120, so if you went for that, with the Yamaha, and 685's you would have a really nice set-up, more than capable for 2.1 and at around your budget.

If you were wanting to go 5.1 either now, or in the future, you would have to up your amp (AVR) budget, and reduce the speaker budget. I have 2 set-ups, none of which are 4K HDR compatible as I don't have 4K screens, so they both are based around Onkyo TX-NR609's. And with that you will get less sound quality, at least for stereo music. But you will gain some flexibility. You can always, of course, build up to a 5.1 system gradually. So, for example, you could buy the AVR for around £500 (which is roughly where you want to be with an AVR coupled with a 4K TV, something like the Yamaha RXA670 or Denon AVRX2400 would probably do. You could start off with the M1's I mentioned earlier, and move them to rears later when you get bigger fronts. Then a matching centre and sub later again, or get the M1's + Sub at the start might make for a better initial system. I would personally get the AVR new, but would be happy to go second hand for the speakers. I'll probably upgrade one of my amps later this year, and I'm seriously thinking of the Yamaha I mentioned earlier, as I also plan on getting a 4K screen later this year.
 
RDB85 said:
I am looking at getting an Amp and some Bookshelf Speakers for my 4K TV which I am looking at getting in a few months.

I like the look of Q Acoustic and I have heard good things about Yamaha as an Amp. I am thinking a trip to RS is probably my best bet.

But if someone could help me with suggestions that would be brilliant.
Click to expand...

Q Acoustics are good for the money, can't go wrong with them. I'd go for the slghtly larger standmount model though.

Yamaha are good reliable AVR's, however the room correction isn't the best, but it offers customisation, something others do not. Yamaha AVR's don't have gobs of power on the speaker outputs though.

At your budget I'd go 5.1 but that is pushing it still, so perhaps buy the speakers second hand, and for reassuracnce buy a AVR new.
 
faxfan said:
https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/bundle/49603/

Looks like an excellent deal @£799, you'll need speaker wire though as well.
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Personally I'd buy larger speakers.

Also those have pretty low sensivity, they would need 2-3 times the power of bigger speakers to have the same dB output. Speakers with 4" drivers don't have that much bass, and it means the sub has to reach higher up.
 
Say for example you have a 50W amp, 8' distance, 2 speakers. Max power 96dB. In peaks that is possible. But swap that speaker out with one at 90dB @ 1W, not touching channel levels, or volume and you'll get 102dB.

That is a massive difference in speaker sensivity.
 
hornetstinger said:
Personally I'd buy larger speakers.

Also those have pretty low sensivity, they would need 2-3 times the power of bigger speakers to have the same dB output. Speakers with 4" drivers don't have that much bass, and it means the sub has to reach higher up.
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Definitely not needed - those monitor audios are incredible sounding, even more so at that price! I recommended them to my uncle when the speakers alone were £799.

If you wanted to go 2.1 straight off, look into some of the older Kef Q series. Great value for money at the moment as they new series had pushed the price of old, yet still great sounding, stuff.
 
MrRockliffe said:
Definitely not needed - those monitor audios are incredible sounding, even more so at that price! I recommended them to my uncle when the speakers alone were £799.

If you wanted to go 2.1 straight off, look into some of the older Kef Q series. Great value for money at the moment as they new series had pushed the price of old, yet still great sounding, stuff.
Click to expand...

You can't defy physics. 4" speakers can only push so much air. For speakers of that size I'd use for side/surrounds/multi-room/small room- but not the L/C/R.

They won't go that low, so the sub needs to do more, and typically subs don't handle higher frequencies.

I've got a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.0. They're nice little speakers, but they are pretty bass shy, and you would need a fantastic sub to match up to go higher up.

Personally I'd say the main speakers should be 5.25" minimum, ideally 6.5"
 
hornetstinger said:
You can't defy physics. 4" speakers can only push so much air. For speakers of that size I'd use for side/surrounds/multi-room/small room- but not the L/C/R.

They won't go that low, so the sub needs to do more, and typically subs don't handle higher frequencies.

I've got a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.0. They're nice little speakers, but they are pretty bass shy, and you would need a fantastic sub to match up to go higher up.

Personally I'd say the main speakers should be 5.25" minimum, ideally 6.5"
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Have you heard the speakers personally?
 
I'm not sure about the actual measurement of the speaker 5" - 6.5", I've never really seen that quoted as a major deciding factor in AV speakers. A quick peak at speaker packages and it would seem aiming for 5" - 6.5" would add considerable expense.

I would expect the Monitor Audio sub be suitable for the speaker package and provide pretty seamless sound integration. Indeed the reviews seem very good (even at the much higher price) for the speaker package - specifically this one which does mention the sub integration -

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/monitor-audio-mass-51-review/14780

Personally if I was starting out and on budget I'm be seriously considering this package (unless the OP has a huuuuuuuge room).
 
MrRockliffe said:
Have you heard the speakers personally?
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Have you driven a Bugatti Veyron personally? No, well how do you know it has a more powerful engine than a 50cc moped? Because, physics. 4" speakers are "satellite" speakers. 4" is the same size as the whafedales I have, they're great for PC use where you are close to them. But IMO not in a larger room, and you would need a great sub- probably looking at BK XLS400 minimum because you want a great sub that'll handle >80hz fantasically.

Small speakers are far less efficient than larger speakers. These monster speakers

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9c/40/b1/9c40b130419b24f9289371628b5c9e6d.jpg

For same setting on the amp will be 8dB louder than the Monitor Audio Mass! That is massive.

Or think about it this way, you will need 3x the amplifier power to acheive the same dB output on the Monitor Audio Mass. Since OP is looking at budget range, then have efficient speakers makes far more sense, as budget amps don't have lots of power.

The Monitor Audio are £500, which is good price for a complete system. Personally though I'd recommend larger speakers.
 
Personally I'd read the reviews of the equipment within your budget and if you can listen to them - though this might not be possible but most, if not all, AV dealers are happy to take returns. www.avforums.com is a great place to get good information as well.
 
With your budget, I'd look to the second hand market for AVR equipment, especially speaker wise.
Amps are a bit more iffy because they're more likely to fail.
I'd rather buy a nice centre speaker + 2 fronts than a crappy 5.1.

For AVRs if you're buying new, May is the best time to buy one as they all go on sale for the newer models. Speakers, you have to be a bit lucky as they usually get new revisions every 3-5 years.



As part of a 5.1, you want:
1. AVR
2. Centre speakelr
3. L+R front
4. L+R rears
5. Subwoofer
6. Speaker wire + probably you will want some banana plugs



In my experience, a good AVR is.. well a good AVR. AVRs will probably be upgraded more frequently than your speakers and will probably fail sooner than your speakers.

I'd concentrate on a nice 2.1 setup, then try to add surrounds, then finally add a subwoofer. A good subwoofer will below your mind and bring the cinema to your home, but you can live without it for a little while if your fronts are good enough.





-------
I see speakers as a MUCH better investment than say a graphics card in regards to performance:time:value ratio. I'd rather buy a nice L+R that will last 10 years.
I'd honestly reccomend someone slowly build up their speaker setup whilst enjoying what speakers they have at the time than buying an average setup within a small budget.
If you want to go down the ATMOS route at some point, then you will probably have to second hand an atmos AVR if you are lucky.


------

Concluding advice as I've rambled on for ages,

With a £500-700 budget, I'd look to concentrate on getting a very nice centre, L + R and amp. Decide on if you want floor standers or if you can't accomdate them. I personally prefer them and think they're worth the investment.

Then in your next upgrade path, grab 2 surrounds. Then finally when you have saved up enough money, by the best subwoofer you can afford and you will never go to a cinema again lol.



Its weird as in regards to a cinema experience subwoofer >>>>>>, but all round performance your centre + L + R are the most important... and in terms of immersion your surrounds play a pivotal role. ... and they are all dependant on an AVR.

Its expensive but a very very worthwhile investment which will out last all your other tech.
 
Re: sub/sat systems.

Yes, the sats are bass limited. It doesn't take a genius to work out that little speakers don't put out much bass. That's why it's a sub/sat system. The sub is there to take over where the satellites tail off.

I've sold plenty of the Monitor Audio Radius speakers. These are the grandfather of speakers such as the Mass and the Vectors.

Radius 90's are excellent mini-monitors in their own right, but equally bass-limited. When combined with a sub though the the whole package works wonderfully. The largest room I've done with Radius was approx 22ft wide x 40ft long games and entertainment room. TV was a 50" Panasonic plasma for daytime viewing or an 11ft wide projection screen (150+" diagonal) projection screen when the light was subdued.

The client was adamant that he didn't want floor-standing speakers, so we agreed that if the front and rear pairs had to be small then they had to be high quality as well. Radius fit the bill nicely. The centre speaker was the Radius 250 and the whole lot was partnered by a 12" Velodyne long throw sub. Power came courtesy of an ARCAM AV receiver. Despite the room size and relatively small speakers they filled the space admirably.

M.A. Mass have an excellent lineage. They're a lovely system and equally at home with music as with movies. The Denon amp is strong for movie impact, but I prefer Yamaha for the precision of the sound field steering and also find their amps can be surprisingly good with music. For a 20x8 ft room they'll do very well.
 
hornetstinger said:
Have you driven a Bugatti Veyron personally? No, well how do you know it has a more powerful engine than a 50cc moped? Because, physics. 4" speakers are "satellite" speakers. 4" is the same size as the whafedales I have, they're great for PC use where you are close to them. But IMO not in a larger room, and you would need a great sub- probably looking at BK XLS400 minimum because you want a great sub that'll handle >80hz fantasically.

Small speakers are far less efficient than larger speakers. These monster speakers

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9c/40/b1/9c40b130419b24f9289371628b5c9e6d.jpg

For same setting on the amp will be 8dB louder than the Monitor Audio Mass! That is massive.

Or think about it this way, you will need 3x the amplifier power to acheive the same dB output on the Monitor Audio Mass. Since OP is looking at budget range, then have efficient speakers makes far more sense, as budget amps don't have lots of power.

The Monitor Audio are £500, which is good price for a complete system. Personally though I'd recommend larger speakers.
Click to expand...

We're not talking about facts - you can calculate the power output of a Bugatti and compare it. Numbers don't tell you how something sounds. If they did, it would make purchasing a lot easier.

The fact of the matter is, the Monitor Audio Mass series sounds excellent, regardless of how big the speakers are. Telling someone they're not good based on the fact they're 4 inch speakers is ridiculous.

At the end of the day OP asked for a quality 5.1 system in a living room. Unless he's minted, and has a lovely great big front room (which is unlikely due to the smaller budget), these speakers will never be driven near full volume, and hence, will sound great; regardless of the size of them.
 
MrRockliffe said:
We're not talking about facts - you can calculate the power output of a Bugatti and compare it. Numbers don't tell you how something sounds. If they did, it would make purchasing a lot easier.

The fact of the matter is, the Monitor Audio Mass series sounds excellent, regardless of how big the speakers are. Telling someone they're not good based on the fact they're 4 inch speakers is ridiculous.

At the end of the day OP asked for a quality 5.1 system in a living room. Unless he's minted, and has a lovely great big front room (which is unlikely due to the smaller budget), these speakers will never be driven near full volume, and hence, will sound great; regardless of the size of them.
Click to expand...

Two speakers of a similar design will have similar frequency response. And therefore making statement of driver size is valid. I've had plenty of speakers, of various sizes, budget.

Frequency response of a speaker is a fact, a satellite won't have the frequency response, lower distortion, or output of a bigger driver. Why so do you think Bose jewel are slated?

I said nothing of sound quality. Which is irrelevant.
 
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