Lots of watercooling questions from a total beginner

[bezuk]

Hey everyone - first time post from a long time lurker, and I'm afraid it's going to be long

I've been looking for a while now at switching from air to watercooling for a bit of an unusual reason - noise. I've never touched watercooling before and all I have to go on are a bunch of forum posts which have been helpful. However I still have a fair few questions so I'll just write down as much as I can here and hopefully someone can tell me where I'm right and wrong.

Firstly here's the stuff I have now:

Q6600 at 3.33 GHz on a Thermalright 120 Ultra Extreme with a Noctua fan at 800 rpm (not sure how many volts that is)
4GB 800MHz mem
8800 GTX w/ stock cooler, not overclocked
WD Raptor 150 + 500 GB samsung storage drive
Seasonic 600w PSU
Intel P35 MB (asus P5K-E)
Couple of very quiet case fans (top and back)
and all the other things that don't matter much to cooling or noise

inside an Antec P180B.

Temps - CPU 40-45 idle, 65 ish load
GPU 65 idle, 88+ load

Now this system is obviously pretty quiet at idle, but what's really started to get to me is the noise of the 8800 GTX fan under load. From what I've read of GT200 / RV770 reviews, the stock coolers on all of them are even worse. I know there's a few aftermarket aircoolers I could try but I think I'm looking for a more long term solution now. I don't mind spending quite a bit of money to do it right if that's what it takes. (I do enjoy messing with this kind of thing after all). Specific things I'm wondering about are below, any help is greatly appreciated.

1: How quiet is it possible to make a top-class watercooling setup, compared to the aircooled spec above? I'm sure that at idle it'll be louder, but it should be quieter under load?

2: Assuming I watercool both the CPU and the GPU in one loop, what kind of radiator would people recommend to do the job and preferably give temps equal to or lower than the aircooled setup? Would a 120.2 do or would a 120.3 be better - I'm assuming the extra 120mm fan wouldn't add too much to the noise level, and I'm not too bothered about the extra cost.

3: How fast do the fans on the radiator have to spin to do the job properly? I think I read somewhere that if the fans spin too slowly, the air doesn't get through the radiator properly and the cooling becomes useless - but I can't remember where I read it. Does anyone recommend any particular fans to be used there where noise is a priority?

4: stupid one but I'm still not sure - do you generally attach fans only to one side of the radiator, or to both?

5: the blocks I'd need are for CPU and GPU (I think ). Not too worried about the CPU block, I can research that one more later. With GC blocks though, the general impression I get around here is that the full coverage blocks are a little overpriced and obviously have to be replaced with a new card. Would a core-only block do the trick for the 8800 GTX and potential upgrades?

6: Case - I know the P180 would have to go, even though I like it, because it's so small. Trouble is, I'm so rubbish at DIY that if I started drilling holes in any case it would all go wrong very quickly and I'd be left with a pile of metal shards or something. On that note, are there any cases in which all these things can be mounted without any need for drilling (Pretty sure the answer to this is no, sadly, but I thought I'd check anyway)

7: If I ever ended up with a nVidia MB again, I'd want to watercool the chipset to get rid of that awful fan they put on there - the one on the 680i drove me crazy. Would the loop be able to handle this additional without too much difficulty? And am I right in thinking there's not a lot of need with the passive P35?

8: Pumps - as with CPU blocks I'm not too worried as I can do more research if I decide to go with it but if anyone has any recommendations for a quiet one, I'd like to hear them.

Think that's everything, any help or suggestions would be great.

Mark

 

[Kop_Jedi]

Not wanting to jump the responses too much but how 'long lasting' are these water setups when Gfx cards and cpu's change? For example did the switch to dual or quad core mean you have to change your water setup?

I would be looking at a setup for overclocking.

 

[WJA96]

It's really unlikely that you'll see much benefit from an active watercooling system in terms of noise. If you think about it - the only noisy things in your system are the fans, the HDD and the optical drives.

The HDD you can bury in a soundproof box. The optical drive you cannot silence realistically. That leaves the fans, and if you add an active radiator you'll be adding at least one fan. Or maybe not.

How about this?

Two loops. One 120mm radiator in the rear 120mm fan compartment and one in the top. Use your existing quiet fans and buy two submerged pump units (like XSPC). That will take a fan out of your system and give you better cooling for both the CPU and graphics.

Try (I know it's a GTS block, but OcUK don't stock the GTX one, and they are the same price anyway);

But, if you really want silence, and you're not fussed on the cash, then you want full-on passive cooling. I have my HD4850's passively cooled with Accellero S1's, and they're fine. I use a Zalman Reserator V1.0 Plus to cool my CPU and that's also fine. You don't know what a quiet PC is until you're tried true passive water-cooling.

 

[bezuk]

Thanks for the reply. I know I'm probably asking for a lot when trying to find a quiet setup which also cools better than air. However I really don't mind giving up a bit of idle noise so long as I can remove the roar of the 8800 under full load while still cooling it well enough that I'm comfortable using it for ages. I was messing with the beta Folding NV GPU client while working yesterday which really showed me how very loud it is.

Any GPU upgrade paths I'm likely to take are all going to be single card though since the games that don't run well enough on the current system (other than Crysis) are all MMOGs and I've heard really bad things about both Crossfire and SLI in MMOGs. And by all accounts the coolers on the GT200 series are even louder than the 8800GTX one. The Accelero S1s are great when it's possible to go totally passive but I've had a bad experience with most aftermarket coolers that involve a fan.

The setup you've suggested looks like it would do the trick - roughly how big a case would I need to fit all that stuff in? I'm assuming the cooling would be pretty good compared to one loop due to the extra pump. I'd still maybe be a little worried that my existing fans are just too slow to do the job though.

The full passive setup you describe is a good idea and one I've been pursuing on my other box - that one has an 8800 GT under an Accelero S1, although the cpu cooler is still a TR-UE with the same 800rpm fan. At idle these systems are quiet enough to be drowned out by a Sky box so I haven't felt the need to get a reserator for it yet As for silencing the HD, those new "Core" series OCZ SSDs look mighty tempting... (Not really worried about the noise from the storage drive)

Not wanting to jump the responses too much but how 'long lasting' are these water setups when Gfx cards and cpu's change? For example did the switch to dual or quad core mean you have to change your water setup?

I would be looking at a setup for overclocking.

I'll try to answer this even though I'm still a noob - with the CPU blocks I think they persist until major socket changes - unfortunately such a change is nearly upon us with Nehalem and LGA1366.

With GC blocks it depends on full coverage or core only from what I've read - the former is more or less unique to a specific card, the latter gives you more (but still not universal) options.

Mark

 

[Greebo]

Unless you are desperate to eek out the very last Mhz out off you cpu I would go with just one loop cooling both as follows:

Product Name Qty Price Line Total
Masterkleer 7/16" Tubing - 1m £1.29
(£1.52) £3.87
(£4.56)
Swiftech MCRES-Micro Watercooling Resevoir £8.99
(£10.56) £8.99
(£10.56)
Thermochill PA120.2 120mm Double Radiator £46.99
(£55.21) £46.99
(£55.21)
D-Tek Fuzion V2 Universal CPU Block (AMD Socket A/754/939/AM2, Intel 478/LGA775/423/771/603/604) £39.99
(£46.99) £39.99
(£46.99)
Swiftech Laing D5 Vario MCP655 12 VDC Pump £48.99
(£57.56) £48.99
(£57.56)
Swiftech MCW60R VGA Waterblock £22.99
(£27.01) £22.99
(£27.01)
Sub Total : £171.82
Shipping cost assumes delivery to UK Mainland with:
City Link Parcel Next Day (Delivered Mon-Fri)
(This can be changed during checkout) Shipping : £8.95
VAT is being charged at 17.5% VAT : £31.63
Total : £212.40

You'll need some ramsinks for your gTX which I forgot.

Advantages of this setup as follows:

It's the best cpu block for quads - fact
The pump is one of the best as well.
The rad is the best you can buy as well (well Fesar might be better but the price)
Getting just a block for your GTX means you don't have to sell it when you change cards. My block I have used on my 8800GT 8800GTS and soon it will be on my 4870.

I forgot to add some fans to the basket. If you want cooling perfromance and some quietness then 4 yate loons on a push/pull setup with the radiator works well. Put variable control on the fans and you are sorted.

The above rig will be capable at keeping temps fine enough at non extreme overclocking passively and hence silent.

My lessor watercooling setup with poorer double rad keeps my 3.8Ghz q6600 at 65C and my overclocked GTS at 43C. When not gaming, I switch my fans off and run passively. Best of both worlds.

 

[1kiwi]

Hi, I too am going into watercooling. I've started with an excellent custom built case and are now looking at components. The only difference between you and me is that performance comes before noise. One thing i noticed in your description is that your main problem is the noise generated from the GTX fan. Wouldn't it be better to get a decent after market air cooler for the GTX and simply use a fan controller (either software or hardware) to up the fan speed when necessary. I notice you have a raptor (like me) which as suggested above could be tamed using a hard drive sound dampening enclosure?

 

[Greebo]

Hi, I too am going into watercooling. I've started with an excellent custom built case and are now looking at components. The only difference between you and me is that performance comes before noise. One thing i noticed in your description is that your main problem is the noise generated from the GTX fan. Wouldn't it be better to get a decent after market air cooler for the GTX and simply use a fan controller (either software or hardware) to up the fan speed when necessary. I notice you have a raptor (like me) which as suggested above could be tamed using a hard drive sound dampening enclosure?

I have two raptors and can;t hear them. I mounted them on rubber grommets and the inside of the case has sound reduction foam plastered all over it.

The only thing I can hear is my optical drive