LOW POWER LOW BUDGET SILENT HTPC

benardmens · 13 Nov 2011 at 09:00

Hi All,

I'm new on here, I've been reading a lot of forum posts all over the place and Im getting so confused I decided to join and ask the experts on here for help

.

I've seen a few of the newbie htpc threads but non of them seem very conclusive or seem to miss out a few things I want. I'm a newbie to htpc's as well.

I want to build a low powered cheap htpc if possible

to do the following

Case 1
run all media including 3d with xbmc. I have a nas box so it will primarily be just streaming from that or browsing flash based sites like iplayer hd etc.
it also has to be as quiet as possible. Some threads talk about the AMD llano processors but say that they cant do certain tasks? Some threads also say that XBMC hardware support on AMD processors is patchy?
additionally it should support from 5.1 sound upwards.

Case 2
if case 1 isnt possible, something that with the same specs that will run with Windows (im not a big windows fan so would like to avoid it if I can). What version of windows would I need as well?

For both cases a media remote and keyboard if needed that will work out of the box.

Thanks for reading

R088ieS86 · 13 Nov 2011 at 11:41

Hi and welcome,

Firstly, whats your version of low budget? (everyones is different

)

Just examining Case 1.
XBMC isn't an OS so you won't be able to browse websites if you are using XBMC live.
This leaves you with the option of either installing Linux or Windows as an OS then running XBMC for media playback whilst allowing your OS's browser to do the website work.

AMD llano processors but say that they cant do certain tasks

The Llano APUs are actually very good for HTPCs as you can pick from dual, tri or quad cores depending on your processing power needs and they handle HD content even with hardware acceleration turn on.

XBMC hardware support on AMD processors is patchy

XBMC the program will work fine with Intel/AMD processors. I think its Linux you have read about with on/off AMD support.

it should support from 5.1 sound upwards

If you are outputting via HDMI 1.4 (needed for HD3D plaback) then 5.1 won't be an issue.

Before you decide on a build its worth considering how small you want it to be.
The 2 main sizes for HTPC's are mATX and mITX.
mITX being the smallest size. Do you have space requirements?

nocturnal1974 · 13 Nov 2011 at 12:07

There are modern dedicated media players that are making the idea of a HTPC obsolete. You can connect USB keyboards and mice etc. Connect to NAS, run iplayer.

I recently bought a bluray player for £75 that connects to NAS, utube, will play Bluray rips from an attached USB, hard disk etc.

Have a look at this website...

http://www.iboum.com/net-media-players.php

Alexrose1uk · 13 Nov 2011 at 14:14

Media streamer units are cheap, but have limitations a full HTPC doesn't (the cost is the clue). If he just wants to stream DVD rips then a media steamer will be fine, but if he wants to do things like utilise advanced subtitles; new file formats, hi10p video, or h265 when it arrives, then these are better suited to a HTPC.
When they work, they're great, nice plug and play, low power and cool. But if something doesnt work, its often a hardware limitation and you're screwed or have to faff around with multiple firmwares (ex-media streamer unit user talking from experience).

Case1
run all media including 3d with xbmc. I have a nas box so it will primarily be just streaming from that or browsing flash based sites like iplayer hd etc.
it also has to be as quiet as possible. Some threads talk about the AMD llano processors but say that they cant do certain tasks? Some threads also say that XBMC hardware support on AMD processors is patchy?
additionally it should support from 5.1 sound upwards.

Quiet isn't so much an issue; you just have to be picky. I use a Nexus 430 Value (see SilentPCReview for feedback), several Nexus fans running at 60% and a Scythe Shuriken Cooler set to about 75%. The external HDD is often louder

The llano CPUs are decent starting points; the inbuilt CPU especially the tri-core is more than enough for most material; obviously you can look higher spec, but it depends on how much overkill/future proofing you want.

The issues with XBMC/ATI are linux (GPU drivers, processors work fine regardless), Windows is typically fine. Modern ATI GPUs have supported 5.1 PCM over HDMI for several years now, so you should also be fine there.

Case 2
if case 1 isnt possible, something that with the same specs that will run with Windows (im not a big windows fan so would like to avoid it if I can). What version of windows would I need as well?

You can use a Linux build of XBMC if you wish; there are pros and cons to this. If you want to use ATI hardware you are better sticking with Windows.

In terms of what you need, Windows Vista/Win 7 Home premium should be fine. XP isn't really good enough; as I'll assume you want to offload a lot of processing to the GPU, and XBMC under windows only uses DXVA2, so XP+DXVA just won't work (unless you use a non-standard version of XBMC like DSPlayer).

The android mobile remote for XBMC is actually really good, has most features you'd want, including Wake on lan boot and shutdown if your PC is compatible.
I'm using Mediaportal right now, but thats only because it supports Windows Directshow filters fully with no caveats, I actually prefer the layout and remote for XBMC.

benardmens · 13 Nov 2011 at 17:47

Hi R088ieS86, nocturnal and Alexrose. Thanks for the quick reply.

I do want to be able to upgrade the system as I go along so a media streamer is not really an option for me.

Budget wise, hoping to spend around 250 (i dont know how realistic that is) as my highest upper limit, but lower if I can manage it. From the little I know the cases are very expensive and I think I would want a basic case that just does the job for now. HD wise, I just intend to run the OS off a small hd or sd if possible. I dont intend to have anything but the OS and the required libraries /software on the htpc itself. I dont know how possible that is? I dont intend to connect externals to the htpc. Everything else is held in the nas so a gigabit ethernet connection is all thats necessary or im wrong?

I also thought xbmc was an OS, thanks for clearing that up as well as the fact that I can run it on Windows as well. I think I will be going down the Windows 7 Home premium route then as it seems simpler. Its also good to know that hdmi 1.4 solves everything to do with sound.

I do not have space requirements, but something that can sit unnoticed would be preferable so probably an mITX board. I also am on a budget so future proof wise, anything that will hold up to the next two years of HD and 3D is fine, I'm not intending to do any gaming on the system and I can save up for a crazy powered system later on

The fans and the cooler seem like a very good idea, I'll check them out.

Cheers for reading again!

Alexrose1uk · 13 Nov 2011 at 18:23

If you already have a cheap HDD or can get one, that should be relatively viable, especially if you have or can get a Windows license cheap.

I would look at cooling first, as decent silent/very quiet cooling can cost a bit. I think my Nexus PSU set me back about £60, although it IS extremely quiet as I've never heard it have to actually spin the fan up from higher than its standard idle speed.

For a basic (and not rediculously expensive) case, check out OcUK's Opera case. It's not perfect, and the front is a bit plasticy, but its big enough to fit a normal not slimline GPU, and its relatively cheap. I use one as I couldnt justify upgrading the case for another £100 etc.

saitrix · 14 Nov 2011 at 12:47

I would go for a PicoPsu style PSU, I also own a Nexus Value 430W. Very good power supply but expensive, I was able to do a 120W PicoPsu setup for £40, which is 100% silent.

My list would be:

Opera Case £40
120W PicoPsu (or equivalent) £40
Intel G620 CPU £52
MSI/Intel basic motherboard £40
4gb DDR3 £20
Low end Nvidia card £35 (say GT520 or whatever you can find thats passively cooled)

Rough total there of £230. I know it excludes hard drive but that pc will be really quick for xbmc and nvidia cards have the best 23.976Hz support. You can run Linux with it no problems so you can use a free OS. You may need to spend £20-30 on a good cpu cooler (Scythe Big Suriken I was thinking) to make it near silent.

Alexrose1uk · 14 Nov 2011 at 17:17

Unfortunately not entirely the case that Nvidia have the best 23.976. They offer a better range of custom res options so you can try and get it spot on, but ATI offer a better 'Out the box' solution in Windows.

Intel are the worst out the bunch unless they've resolved thier 23.976 inabilities in the last few months; but that was a hardware issue. Nvidia definately have the best Linux support but thats a different matter

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4380/discrete-htpc-gpus-shootout/5

saitrix · 14 Nov 2011 at 18:01

Is that still for XBMC? I was sure it was Nvidia the best for the 23.976 support, I might be going mad though.

I heard that Intel are trying to improve it on Ivy Bridge, but time will tell there.

Alexrose1uk · 14 Nov 2011 at 18:21

It's relevant to anything based out of Windows as far as I'm aware, as they all work off Windows refresh rates, which the drivers don't set 100% properly unfortunately.

I found Windows XBMC to be a little more reliable over a wide range of files, but thats just my experience. Linux is a different story when it comes to refresh rates as I believe you CAN get proper 23.976 there, but alas as always with HTPC there's no 100% best option.

benardmens · 19 Nov 2011 at 06:39

saitrix said:
I would go for a PicoPsu style PSU, I also own a Nexus Value 430W. Very good power supply but expensive, I was able to do a 120W PicoPsu setup for £40, which is 100% silent.

My list would be:

Opera Case £40
120W PicoPsu (or equivalent) £40
Intel G620 CPU £52
MSI/Intel basic motherboard £40
4gb DDR3 £20
Low end Nvidia card £35 (say GT520 or whatever you can find thats passively cooled)

Thanks for the system info saitrix, I will look into it, the picopsu does not look bad at all. OS and HD wise I already have a Windows license and an HD so that wont be an issue.

Alexrose1uk said:
It's relevant to anything based out of Windows as far as I'm aware, as they all work off Windows refresh rates, which the drivers don't set 100% properly unfortunately.

So Alex from what you are saying is it better to stick with ATI which I assume is AMD and LLano or go for a separate NVIDIA card on Windows. If later on I wanted to try Linux XBMC, would choosing on over the other cause significant issues?

Alexrose1uk · 19 Nov 2011 at 09:08

ATI work well for this generally in Windows, Nvidia have a solid lead in Linux, so if you think you're going to use Windows then you'll be fine sticking with the AMD/ATI setup. If you plan to go for Linux, a cheap GT520 or 430 might not be a bad idea

In Windows, ATI also have slightly better 23.976/23Hz support out the box in general; Nvidia give you more tweakability but the basic is worse off. That Anandtech review I linked above actually covers some interesting information aside from this so you might fancy giving it a read.

For reference, my HTPC is
i3-2100
4GB DDR3
40GB SSD (ahhhh silence...I got it on sale cheap)
GT430 Passive
Nexus Value 430
Scythe Big Shuriken Cooler
2* Nexus Real Silent 120mm fans
2* 5400RPM 2TB Drives (one internal, one external)
Win 7

Pretty damn quiet once the fans set to less than 100% (think they're riding 50-75%)
I'm actually using MediaPortal rather than XBMC at the moment, because I have it configured with LAVFilters which gives me highdef audio bitstream if I want it, plus 10bit H264 decoding support.

I have it networked and control it with my Android mobile phone via wireless, rather than having to have a KB/Mouse attached permanently.

Amp34 · 19 Nov 2011 at 10:37

saitrix said:
I would go for a PicoPsu style PSU, I also own a Nexus Value 430W. Very good power supply but expensive, I was able to do a 120W PicoPsu setup for £40, which is 100% silent.

My list would be:

Opera Case £40
120W PicoPsu (or equivalent) £40
Intel G620 CPU £52
MSI/Intel basic motherboard £40
4gb DDR3 £20
Low end Nvidia card £35 (say GT520 or whatever you can find thats passively cooled)

Rough total there of £230. I know it excludes hard drive but that pc will be really quick for xbmc and nvidia cards have the best 23.976Hz support. You can run Linux with it no problems so you can use a free OS. You may need to spend £20-30 on a good cpu cooler (Scythe Big Suriken I was thinking) to make it near silent.

I'd love to know where you got the PicoPSU for £40 (obviously you can't tell me). When I looked into them the PicoPsu unit was around £40 but you need to spend another £30-40 for the powerbrick to go with it AFAIK? :confused:

benardmens · 7 Dec 2011 at 14:06

Decision

Opera Case £40
120W PicoPsu (or equivalent) £40
Intel G620 CPU £52
MSI/Intel basic motherboard £40
4gb DDR3 £20
Low end Nvidia card £35 (say GT520 or whatever you can find thats passively cooled)

i3-2100
4GB DDR3
40GB SSD (ahhhh silence...I got it on sale cheap)
GT430 Passive
Nexus Value 430
Scythe Big Shuriken Cooler
2* Nexus Real Silent 120mm fans
2* 5400RPM 2TB Drives (one internal, one external)
Win 7

Alexrose1uk, saitrix, thanks for the feedback, I think i will build an intel rig because I dont have windows in my home and just the thought of having it makes me uneasy

...

Also, it sounds like if I go with AMD i'm pretty much stuck on Windows and I want to have flexibility to try both if needed and it seems like the two builds will do the trick.

Thanks again, Ill let you know how it goes , now to find components

Alexrose1uk · 7 Dec 2011 at 16:55

To be honest the spec listed above is simply my HTPC, the best of both worlds for you in terms of cost performance would probably be a combination of both.

The G620 processor at £50 for example is not a bad processor at ALL for a HTPC. I only got an I3-2100 because I got one cheaper than the going rate, so I thought why the hell not, if it wasn't for that, I was going to have gone for a G series chip (at the end of the day, even with loads of extras cut off, they ARE still Sandybridge dual cores!) The cost deficit for a G6/7 processor and an i3 processor would pretty much pay for a decent low volume cooler like the Scythe at current normal prices (in the G620's case, with a bit leftover for spare)

The Nexus PSUs whilst very very quiet as long as you get good one, are also expensive, the Nexus Value has gone up almost £20 since I bought mine, and you can get the higher end Nexus models for not much more, and they're just as quiet if not more so than the 430w.

In my download box I'm currently using a Rasurbo Eco PSU (sold by a competitor so I cant link but email me in trust if you want to know where from), and whilst it's not AS quiet as the Nexus, it is quiet enough that I only notice because I have a low ambient volume in my room if I want it, and I actually listen for it (The Nexus PSU is so quiet I actually do have to get within half a meter usually to hear it with low ambient noise), it definately blends into the background well, and it cost about £45 compared to the 70 of the Nexus these days. It's rated at about 16dB which is pretty good, the Bequiets OcUK sell are also worth a look, as they're also (going by specs) rated about 18 dB which is again fairly good.