Lowering 1st Floor.

Traffic_Warden · 31 Mar 2013 at 12:35

Hey GD.

Looking for a bit of advice on lowering the 1st Floor in my Stone built house.

Currently ive knocked through to the connecting stable/barn to make a large kitchen and upstair ensuite/master bedroom. But not knowing untill i had knocked through that the floor level was actually a good 4-5 inch higher in the Stable/Barn.

What i would like to know is the best ways to lower the floor in a stone built house . Obviously if it was brick or breeze block i could easily use joist hangars etc but with the stone not being a level base i don't think this is an option. I also had an idea of putting a wall plate in and bolting through the supporting/outside wall (2ft thick min) and using a resin compound does this seem ok ? Ive been trying to do some research online but no set good answers come up.

Here are some pictures to help.

Traffic_Warden · 31 Mar 2013 at 12:47

I didn't ask for you to tell me 'Get a Structural Engineer Derp'

Why am i doing stuff i randomly read online? I asked for advice.

Traffic_Warden · 31 Mar 2013 at 13:22

Derek W said:
here comes some 'herp derp' regardless of whether you like it or not. Structural engineers know what they're talking about. As an Architectural Technician I cant tell you the finer details, but removing a structural element weakens the overall structure of your building. Done incorrectly the walls of your house could bow out causing a collapse (extreme case). Solutions I've experienced are putting up a new timber frame inside and bearing first floor joists onto the frame or as you suggest in your op bolting a timber plate through the external walls then joist hanging off that. Without the appropriate technical knowledge no one here can give you the advice you're looking for.

Thats the advice i wanted , Thanks.

Traffic_Warden · 31 Mar 2013 at 13:53

Derek W said:
the advice you were looking for? That a structural engineer / getting appropriate technical information for your job is the best advice. Not a problem.

All the other stuff i mentioned were possible solutions, and there are more available but since i know nothing of your job other than a couple of photos I would disregard them completely.

I will go down the Structural Engineer route,

I was saying thanks for actually answering my OP in general.

nkata said:
Your idea is sound in principle. You need to do some structural checks on size for the wall plate and through bolts.

To avoid drilling through the walls, you could grout steel sections into pockets cut into the inner wall face to support a wall plate.

Lateral steel ties, angle or bar could be used in the depth of the floor to prevent the walls spreading although if the difference in floor is only 100-150mm this may not affect the loads on the wall to much.

Consult on the calculations required, unless you have a knowledge of the structural capacities of timber and steel. A useful program for design of resin and bolted anchors can be downloaded free from Hilti GB ltd.

Thanks.

Traffic_Warden · 2 Apr 2013 at 12:52

Head room on the ground floor isnt an issue as the floor is higher above.

Having a step on the 1 st floor lowers head room in the above 1st floor room by atleast a foot . Being a 1 and half story style of building and being built in the 1800s head room is not great anyway.

Ive had an Structural Engineer come round yesterday , doing his sums and getting back to me. But he seems to think 'clamping' a wall plate to the outer walls with a metal plate on either side with threaded rod through the wall. Then using joist hangars off of them . Shall see if he comes back saying thats okay to do.

Again thanks for everyones help.

Traffic_Warden · 2 Apr 2013 at 18:47

Ill keep the Destruction Thread updated just for you Papa.

Traffic_Warden · 2 Apr 2013 at 21:01

Traffic_Warden · 3 Apr 2013 at 09:50

DB_SamX said:
As a structural engineer, spot on.

The only thing I can't remember right now is whether the disproportionate collapse/tying of wall+floor clauses of Building Regs are satisfied by simply using timber plate on the inside wall, especially given it is a stone wall (which I have no experience in).

So yes, get someone to give you some advice. For the few hundred pounds it will cost, it will be worth the peace of mind in the long term.

Have done cost me £350 but as youve all said its worth it just for piece of mind after all.

The previous owners had lived here for 50 years previous and converted part of the house from a barn into living accomodation and left the bit at the end, for storage but since i bought it we have had a garage etc so so wanted a 3rd bedroom and larger kitchen and utility. Not planning on living in it , will be selling it on after the work has been done.

Thanks guys.