Lucia Light Simulator Mind Machines....A scam..

Surfer · 25 Apr 2013 at 15:54

Hi, i'm back in the UK - i had problems getting into China (no visa) but i managed to get them sorted.

Ok Mind Machines...

This is a subject which has fascinated me and i HOPE there are people on here familiar with the technology used. The reason i'm asking is because in my opinion so far, the Lucia Light Simulator project and marketing is basically a SCAM.... (google Lucia Light Simulator)

Heres what we know:

The Lucia Light Simulator was created and designed by Engelbert Winkler, PhD, a clinical psychologist and scientific researcher, and Dirk Proekl , M.D. specialist in neurology.

Now their machine 'Lucia' uses stroboscopic (flickering light) technology with variable speeds and intensity with a constant light that can be operated at different brightness levels.

The claim is that using Lucia they can induce experiences akin to that of an out of body experience and also induce other mind enhancing experiences..

http://www.prlog.org/12105389-lucia...-expanding-device-can-be-tried-by-public.html

http://lucialightny.com/Home_Page.html

^^^ see here to read more about it.

Now my problem is not with what it claims to do but with the fact that they seem to be advocating this as revolutionary....the cost of Lucia is approximately £15,000 ...........

......this doesnt sound a bit odd to anyone else familiar with stroboscopic mind machines?

In the 90s mind machines were all the rage...you could get your own stroboscopic light mind machine for anywhere between £70 - £200 ( i had 3 at one time) approximately. Most had preset programs to induce certain brainwave patterns, to aid meditation, lucid dreaming, higher state of consciousness etc etc. For some of them you could also pre-program your own settings into the machine.

Now from what i have seen from the various videos of Lucia in action...the technology used is the same as these consumer devices HOWEVER...in their "research" i suspect Engelbert and Dirk have hit upon a frequency or range of frequencies that have induced a similar experience in volunteers as an out of body experience. (google if you want to know what this is).

And rather than share this information with the rest of the scientific community they have decided to market a machine behind this and try to make some money out of people wanting this experience.

If you want to try it yourself....

Light Eye Mind uses the same machine to give members of the public a chance to experience it...at their salon in the London area...for a price of course....

Here are the price ranges(quoted from their facebook page)

Hi friends, just to let you know that sessions on the Light Machine come in three levels of radiance - Low, Middle and Further.

As this is such a unique experience that includes flickering light whilst your eyes are closed, we start everyone off with a two minute induction session of Low level radiance, just to check that you like the actual effects and this is FREE!

If you enjoyed that level, we then go on to offer you three minutes at the Middle level of radiance and this too is FREE! If you enjoyed that as well, then for £5, we will offer you either 10 minutes more at the Middle level, or five minutes more at the Further level that has a greater degree of radiance.

After that, you can book at any level you want and our prices are as follows:

15mins – £10 30mins - £20 45mins - £30 60mins - £40

For those of you who really enjoy your experiencesa and would like a lot more, then we offer 3hrs for only £99.

https://www.facebook.com/lighteyemind

Now im not saying the experience will NOT be unique or seem amazing....what i am disgusted at....is that this is all technology which is well know and can be purchased by anyone if you go online and buy a personal stroboscopic mind machine for a FRACTION of the price of this 'Lucia' (or even of a few sessions at the LEM salon)

Its disgusting and i'm even more disturbed that well known consciousness author Anthony Peake is a collaborator in this whole thing....

***Please only comment if you are actually interested in this subject!***

Sin_Chase · 25 Apr 2013 at 15:58

I'm confused, does the China part bear any relevance or....?

Surfer · 25 Apr 2013 at 15:59

haha not really but it was touch and go for a while in there!

Pestilence · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:11

Why am I suddenly thinking about Altered States?

Cosimo · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:19

I must be missing something but I don't need to use some crackpot light emitting mind machine to get an "experience".

Sounds to me that you're just envious because you didn't think of this money making scheme yourself.

aardvark · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:22

you say 'scam' like its a surprise?

PapaLazaru · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:24

Surfer said:
In the 90s mind machines were all the rage...you could get your own stroboscopic light mind machine for anywhere between £70 - £200 ( i had 3 at one time) approximately. Most had preset programs to induce certain brainwave patterns, to aid meditation, lucid dreaming, higher state of consciousness etc etc. For some of them you could also pre-program your own settings into the machine.

Did they work for you?

I seem to recall spending the 90's achieving a higher state of consciousness by imbibing various nefarious substances. Never heard of one of these mind machines before.

dirtychinchilla · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:26

aardvark said:
you say 'scam' like its a surprise?

You've have to be nuts to believe it in the first place.

Surfer · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:30

Cosimo said:
I must be missing something but I don't need to use some crackpot light emitting mind machine to get an "experience".

Sounds to me that you're just envious because you didn't think of this money making scheme yourself.

Basically it is a sort of holy grail to discover the brain frequencies that can induce an OBE....these guys seem perhaps to have found it - i'm not jealous but i thought as scientists they would share their research with the rest of the world...but they were more interested in trying to make money from it..
The technology is not revolutionary at all...
However i do know someone who is part way through building his own version of the Lucia but at a mere fraction of the cost. £15,000 is a scam but what the makers are probably hoping is that companies will buy their machines and then open sortof salons and offer them to the public for like 10 or 20 minute sessions at a time etc....

robgmun · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:31

It's a fake post so that people will realise that this is obviously a scam where they were super angry about the dowsing rod explosive scam, when that should have been obvious to any idiot as well

Cosimo · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:34

Surfer said:
In the 90s mind machines were all the rage...

Funny but I don't recall such a rage. Was it some sort of cool, and groovy underground thing done by the chosen few?

Surfer · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:36

PapaLazaru said:
Did they work for you?

I seem to recall spending the 90's achieving a higher state of consciousness by imbibing various nefarious substances. Never heard of one of these mind machines before.

Oh i've done that as well - can't discuss it because mods will close it sharpish

illegal and whatnot

re: mind machines They work to a lesser extent - helped with lucid dreaming and meditation but never found a program that guaranteed an OBE. This of course was before modern pcs where you can get something like BWGEN and edit/program your own brain training. Something which is a combination of binaural beats and the correct stroboscopic light patterns would be the way to go. But its all about the right program...and imo (i could be wrong of course) what the 2 scientists have discovered is a program.....its nothing to do with Lucia...Lucia is just a means of selling what they have discovered.

glenimp617 · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:40

Sounds dangerous to me

Surfer · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:41

Cosimo said:
Funny but I don't recall such a rage. Was it some sort of cool, and groovy underground thing done by the chosen few?

haha...eerrr something like that

Puzzled · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:44

Out of body experience or epileptic fit??

Surfer · 25 Apr 2013 at 16:48

Interesting website to read on the Lucia..

http://www.clearlightfoundation.com/ebrochure.html

olivier renault · 25 Apr 2013 at 17:13

Pestilence · 25 Apr 2013 at 17:15

MonkeyMan said:
Out of body experience or epileptic fit??

Surfer · 25 Apr 2013 at 17:22

***Please only comment if you are actually interested in this subject!***

bitslice · 25 Apr 2013 at 19:53

Surfer said:
And rather than share this information with the rest of the scientific community

And which part of the scientific community is interested in flashing lights? :confused:

I don't doubt some people experience all sorts of effects from this sort of thing, but it's still in the realm of unproven oddity. Shysters abound where solid evidence is lacking.