Mac to PC

[msknight]

I first got my Mac Pro 4.1 case five years ago, intending to turn it into a PC. I quickly realised that I was up against it... and then some. Now, I've determined to put the extra cash behind a kit to do the job, but it won't all be plain sailing. It will also be slow; I'll have to wait until January to get the mounting kit for a start, and there is a lot to do. There's a nice bit of space in this rather stylish, somewhat iconic case, so I should be able to get a decent build in there.

Incidentally, the link to the picture size in the readme first FAQ at the top of the forum page, doesn't work, so I'm hoping that my picture sizing is OK.

The case barely fits on my small workbench.

One of the key things is the button/LED unit. They share a common ground. I cut away the LED and put a separate blue LED in there, so that they would have separate ground and not potentially cause a problem.

The other main thing I've got to contend with is the front IO panel. It consists of one headphone jack, two USB 2.0 sockets and two early firewire sockets. I have two USB 3 sockets from a previous case so I'm hoping that I can cut away the existing 2.0 sockets and replace them with these, which would save a lot of grief. If I fail, there might be a source of newly minted panel connectors available next year. We'll see how it goes.

 

[msknight]

Progress has been slow thanks, in part, to the postal strike. What has arrived is the front connection panel, where I have to look into replacing the USB 2 ports with the USB 3 versions. It might end up being a case of literally gluing them to the board or something. I'm hoping that a metal, "cap," at the end of the USB 2 ports can be kept and used to support the USB 3 ports. We'll see. Also what arrived is the blue LED strip lighting. It's 1M long, which is a bit shorter than running all the way around, so I'm going to have to work this out. I put it in the case loosely to see how it's going to look. I'm not going to install it properly now, because when I get the conversion kit next year, I'm going to have to take a Dremel to large sections of the case and I don't want to risk damaging the LED strip, so I'll wait until after I've done that, to install the light strip properly.

The other thing that has to be done is I need to tone out the pins for the audio jack. To support HD audio I need to find five points. Left, right common and two points which are linked together when a jack is inserted. This is, apparently, the detection signal that HD Audio uses to work out whether a jack has been plugged in.

The last thing that's been done is an investigation into how to remove the scratches. Apparently there is a pencil for writing on blueprints which works. They're only to be found in the USA and getting one imported is a nightmare, so I tried a silver welders pencil. Unfortunately, that failed. I just might have to live with the scratches the way they are; they're probably too deep for car scratch, "remover."

 

[msknight]

Attaching the USB 3 ports to the old motherboard was never going to be easy, so I put out some feelers to ask for advice, in the retro computing community. JB Weld, came the reply. So after watching some YouTube videos on people using it, I bought some for myself.

I found that the front plate had “retaining” springs (common earth connectivity more likely) which actually helped to keep the sockets in place so I used them as an aid. After sanding the PCB and the sockets, to create a more “grippy” surface for the glue, and then mixing and putting some JB Weld on the PCB, I brought the sockets and fascia to the board and fitted it all on. The cables were twisting the sockets so I used some cocktail sticks to try and keep them in place while the glue took its 4 hours to set and 24 hours to cure. The positioning wasn’t perfect but by my reckoning, it should work and withstand USB devices being plugged in and removed. Given what I was facing here, perfect placement just wasn’t going to be possible.

Many hours later, it looks like the whole thing has set and set well. I don’t think that these sockets are going anywhere!

The whole thing, assembled, fits and appears to work. At least, the acid test is when it’s plugged into a motherboard and tested, but I’ve got no reason to suppose it would fail. The next step is going to be the audio jack but given the very small solder points underneath the board it’s not only going to be difficult to tone it out but also a real sod to solder anything to. That’s going to be more fun.

 

[msknight]

The only electricity that's going near this is the headphone output and I've toned out the three main lines, just got to find where the sensor is for the jack insertion... if there is one... for the HD Audio connector. Other than that, the USB itself is all encased already, so the JB Weld shouldn't touch anything of concern. Things should be safe enough.

 

[msknight]

Should be fine:

FAQ

How much heat can J-B Weld withstand?

www.jbweld.com

Interesting page.

WILL J-B WELD CONDUCT ELECTRICITY?
No. J-B Weld is not considered to be a conductor. It is an insulator.

 

[msknight]

Audio. The last bastion of the front panel, and boy was it a pain. A PC relies on the HD Audio connector. There is a slightly lesser standard being the AC’97 connector, but it seems that many motherboards rely on the jack insertion detection of the HD Audio standard and some operating systems don’t seem to recognise the separate headphone output of the motherboard. What this means is that if the motherboard can’t detect that you’ve inserted your headphones, then it’s going to keep pumping audio out of the rear connector.

The jack that came with the cable, was too large for the smaller Apple jack hole, so simply soldering/gluing that jack in wasn’t going to be an option. I had to use the original socket on the board somehow, and the possibility of tearing it off to see what was underneath, was a no-go as I only had the one board. I did also try e-mailing the Rossman Group, but they responded that they didn’t work on these units so didn’t have the schematics. Still, it was nice of them to respond to me very quickly indeed.

Identifying the left right and ground wasn’t an issue. However, the “Sense_Send” and “Sense2_Ret” had no obvious equivalent on the Apple board. The best I could find was a connector which was connected to ground when a jack was inserted. Connecting, “Sense_Send” to this would likely do nothing other than drive a +5v signal straight to the rest of the ground (which was also connected to the audio ground) and so the best I could hope was to connect the “sense ground” to “Sense2_Ret” in the hope that this would enable the motherboard to detect something.

Sorting this out was difficult as the pins are not only quite small and easy to short, but they are also silver solder and needed to be treated at a higher heat and infused with 60/40 so that when I came to solder the wires in, I could do it with much less heat. Heck, it’ll either work or it won’t.

 

[msknight]

@darael
I don't mind at all. The draper I mentioned at only six quid had served me well, but getting at the bits in the handle was a chore (which is why I keep the separate box) and reaching forward to start a screw by manually turning the shaft was sometimes awkward, but it does for all general diy, whereas the LTT one won't do DIY, but the LTT is easier to get going. The coating on the bits appears to be for show and comes off easily; whether the bits themselves will wear/break I'll find out over time.

I went to order the internal kit for the Apple case and the seller is out of stock. It'll take about a month before I can get the ATX kit for the apple case, so it'll be a while before I can make more progress on the build.

 

[msknight]

It has arrived... the kit from TheLaserHive...

Five-ish years ago I bought the case intending to do the two-part adhesive thing and I had a trash motherboard to do it with, but it became clear that it would have issues with spacing, particularly with the back of the board and the expansion slots. That's when I spotted the laser hive and, with the cost being twice what I'd paid for the case in the first place, I decided to shelve the whole thing.

Five years later, here I am, having made the decision that if I'm going to do this properly then I'm going to need the laser hive kit. And here it is. The deluxe kit with the three drive bay and one of the filters.

It's going to need a lot of dremel work to get this fitted as being the full ATX kit, I'm also going to have to take almost all the upper shelf out... most of it would have to be removed anyway so that the PSU fan could exhaust down into the case safely.

Life is giving me some pain at the moment, so it's going to be a few weeks before I take dremel to case... but at least the kit is here now.

 

[msknight]

Removal of the fan holder and the shelving was a pain in the arse. Unfortunately I can’t share the document that TheLaserHive gave me, without permission, and I can’t find the post that his document references, so I’m going to do the best I can with words. Needless to say that he’s a helpful guy and if you buy one of his kits, he’s very patient and will likely just send you the document just like he did me. After all, your success is his success. He's very open to answering questions and is quite approachable.

Firstly, the sliding locks need to be removed. Behind them are some black metal springs. They’re nothing special and can be prised out and upwards quite easily. Once they’re out, then the, “feet” will come out towards you.

Secondly, underside you’ll see some torx screws, five in my case. These have to be removed.

At this point you should have removed the slim pieces of black metal retaining, "springs," the little locking feet themselves and also the torx screws underneath.

Thirdly, remove the circlip holding the plastic rod end to the handle that opens the case, and pull the pin. Be very careful with this as it is possible to distort the circlip open. The exact number of feet, etc. will vary according to the case. Some cases apparently also have clear circlips so be warned.

Now, you should be in a position to remove the rod itself. There is a magic position, either all open or all closed, depending on the case. Then it should just pull out from the front and be priseable all the way back.

With the rod out, you can remove all the screws you can and the shelf (which in some cases has two sections) should then be able to be manoeuvred out. Be aware that some have two screws holding the shelf to a plate around the power supply area.

The last thing is the fan holder. In my case there were four nuts holding it on at the base, but then two side wings each with two small rivets. I was able to break the rivets I could reach, with some small snips and then I could bend the “wing” back to get the metal off the remaining studs of the rivets.

This still left two rivets on the other side, but because they were inside the bent over case lip, I couldn’t get at them. A bit of brute force and ignorance broke those two and the fan bracket came free.

I was then able to re-assemble the closing lock mechanism.

 

[msknight]

OK … here’s where it got real. Cutting the case. After this experience I have to admit to wanting a T-shirt that says, “I Love My Dremel.” Gorgeous piece of kit. I knew I’d go through some cutting disks and after doing my research I decided to pay the extra for genuine Dremel cutting disks. The problem is that if the cheap clone disks shatter, they do so in an uncontrolled way, so pieces could come off and smack you in the eye. (I was wearing eye protection regardless) I determined that it wasn’t worth the risk. In the end I went through four cutting discs in this operation…

I clarified with TheLaserHive, where the position of the back plate should be in relation to the handle. This is the positioning. With that confirmed, it was then a case of mark it up ready for cutting. A key piece of advice that TheLaserHive gave me, was to not cut back too much and particularly around the power supply, ensure that there was enough case to support the PSU as well, so that a screw would go through the back plate and the case material, before going into the power supply. He emphasised not cutting too much back, as it was always possible to cut a bit more later on. You can’t stick it back on once you’ve cut it.

First up was to cut out the back panel. Cut around all four sides and then bend it back. Keep bending until it snaps. That leaves you with the base section attached with two rivets. They’re not strong so a pair of snips takes care of those and then you can prise the lower bar off and grind down the rivet stumps.

I then tackled the lower shelf/support. This wasn’t going to be easy and there was no clear way to do it, so I opted to cut through the back. This gave me the clearest access to the four screws inside. However, there were three rivets and those needed to be cut off as well, before it could be prised away and the back bracket removed.

The other side of the shelf, however, was not going to be so easy. Because of the case lip, I couldn’t get in at the rivets, even if I did get the screws out. So I opted to cut it as close as I could to the case and leave what was left, in place.

Because I’d already taken out the expansion slots, that then left me with two halves, the power supply area and the fan/IO board area. It was all relatively straightforward but the power supply area had a bar across the back which needed to be bent until it came out.

That left the internal posts to be dremeled out and it was done. A bit of metal sandpaper to smooth the rough edges and it was job done.

 

[msknight]

It isn't totally finished yet, but here are some teaser pictures for you...

 

[msknight]

am going to be honest the rear panel made a really bad job look very good. when i seen your dermal work i was like WTF...
but the panel dose clean it all up, what was the cost of the rear kit?

The rear kit was £90 delux plus another £7 for the fan grill. In my "lessons learned" which will come later once I've finished all this, will be to keep half the shelf unit (not easy) and to find another way to store the hard drive, or go M.2 on board rather than the delux tray, which will save a tenner.

The cost is what put me off five years ago, but comparing it against the JB Weld/post solution, which leaves the back open, etc. I think for me, that it was worth the money. Should have spent it five years ago.

 

[msknight]

This is where the pudding met the eating. Fitting The Laser Hive’s kit. First up was the back plate. All the bolts, nuts and washers supplied are the same. The difference is which ones you use the washers and nuts with. In this case, one of the bolts wouldn’t go in as it interfered with the locking mechanism, so I had to leave it out. These all had washers and nuts. Some were difficult to get to and required care and the use of some needle nose pliers to put the washers and nuts in place and to hold the nuts while tightening the bolts. NOTE – the bolts are torx and come with a small tool. Don’t overtighten, and TheLaserHive warns of this.

Next was the addition of the IO plate. Some of the bolts were washer/nut and others self tapped. The self tappers, again, can be over tightened very easily, so be careful.

Last was the base plate. Note that the four screws at the bottom of the case are removed and replaced with some of the specific bolts/screws that come with the kit for this purpose. Likewise the five at the top.

The motherboard fitted in well. I ended up loosening the screws on the base plate and moving them closer to the rear of the case.

The holes for my power supply were a bit off, so I had to lengthen two of the holes, effectively turning them into slots, before I could seat the power supply nicely.

It actually all comes together quite nicely.

Note – when assembled, the locking mechanism and side bar are going to get in the way of the screws for the expansion slots. Keep the allen/torx key handy as something with low clearance is going to be needed to tighten these bolts. It’s a shame that they can chew the heads if tightened too easily. I had to take one backplate to another just so that it didn’t come off. Again, this was something learned the hard way. Very much consider screwing them in before you mount the IO panel into the case.

During the cutting process, I messed up the power button. It stopped working. The power button itself, apparently (another thing I found out after the fact) can be released by a circlip. Prise the two ends of the circlip together with a needle nose pliers and apparently it drops out. Wish I’d known that at the start. However after sleeping on the problem and being unable to source a replacement power button, I decided to fit a discreet microswitch at the bottom of the case instead, and leave the original power button in place for aesthetics. TheLaserHive is working on a replacement front panel, complete with power button, so we’ll see how it comes out. It might do too much damage to the aesthetics… who knows.

 

[msknight]

yes i have seen a few do it this way and it look's like dog poo, the panels is much better. like you say £97 is a lot tbf its the cost of good PC case itself.

Yes, and when you put the cost of the case itself in the mix you're talking £150. But I look at a lot of the cases and, they come and go. Sort of like cars, they're all born out of a wind tunnel but get one of the old classics that didn't care about fuel efficiency and you see the artistry at work. The only thing is, knowing what I know now, I wish I'd bought a better quality case with fewer scratches and dings... but now I've done this once, I won't be doing it again! I'm still not sure what I'm going to put in this when it's finished... but I'm still having problems with the lighting... the case screws are stopping me from putting the strip lighting in smoothly. Grrrr....

 

[msknight]

It's done. I wish I'd put a bit more money behind a better case in the first place, but I didn't think I would actually get it working, let alone looking nice and cool with its blue LED lights. Worth doing once, but I don't think I'd do another. What machine am I going to put in it? I haven't got a clue. I'm currently recovering from a problem which is going to see many months before I can afford a new system to put inside it. Perhaps I'd better start entering some of those competitions for PC kit. Conclusions and lessons learned after the eye candy.

Conclusion…

At the price of the kit and a decent case, you do this because you like the aesthetic. There is the BitFenix Prodigy M 2022 ARGB Micro-ATX case, but it’s smaller, it’s black and the IO is on the side; but it’s probably better at keeping the dust at bay!


Status of things…

1) The front USB 3 hack worked. To be honest as there wasn’t any change in actual electronics, as long as the USB devices could be plugged in, it was going to work.

2) The Audio connector passed audio no problem, but failed the insertion detection. It wasn’t enough for the motherboard to detect that a pair of headphones had been plugged in. Audio went to the socket, no problem, but the moment that speakers were plugged into the back, the headphones stopped working. Kind of arse backwards, but hey ho. It was always going to be a challenge. I mean, if the operating system can dynamically switch between the two then you’re in with a chance, but if the OS lets the motherboard detect according to those sensors, then it ain’t going to work.

Lessons learned…

(note, some of these have been passed back to TheLaserHive for their reference.)

1) Check the back plate holes for the power supply, so you can do any adjustment before fitting the back plate to the case.

2) Consider removing the power button before starting any physical work. (if you can find the talked about circlip)

3) Consider leaving half the shelf in. A bit of a fuss, but probably worth it on which to rest unwanted PSU cables and possibly even mount a hard drive or two hidden behind the CD doors.

4) Fit the backplates before mounting the IO panel as some of the screws will be difficult to get at, after the fact.

5) Accessing the SSD in the deluxe version requires removing the motherboard. If you’re of the “fit it and leave it,” nature then perhaps skip the deluxe version and go for M.2 on-board, or think of another way of mounting the drive.

6) Considering the power supply airflow path, the obvious 120mm fan at the rear might be better off used to intake air and thus blow it out the front of the case, to maintain positive air pressure.

7) I believe that the rear fan grill is worth getting.

8) Think through your lighting carefully. The standoffs and case screws get in the way of layering LED strips evenly down the sides of the case. It is possible to use case lighting to indicate power on, and the build in blue power LED can become an HDD activity LED instead.