Macro - Clean Lean Bulk?

Dodger · 17 Mar 2011 at 14:24

Hi guys,

I wanted to know what would be the ideal Macros for a clean lean bulk?

I am aiming to hit 2800 calories a day, being only 5' 5" with bf around 15%, weighing in around 70kg (154lbs).

I have seen various threads on the Internet about using high fats with low carbs and also low fats with high carbs? So which one should I go for?

Any other advice towards a clean lean bulk would also be great, many thanks.

DanH84 · 17 Mar 2011 at 16:08

Percentages are pretty irrelevant. It's real numbers that your body is worried about.

If bulking at your weight then I'd probably say around 200g protein, 100g fats then the rest can be whatever you want.

so that's a minimum of 800 you'd be getting from protein, 900 from fat leaving you with just over 1k cals to source from wherever (realistically carbs but don't worry if you get some more protein or fat)

icecold · 17 Mar 2011 at 16:10

Minimal carbs, lots of protein and a good amount of fats.

Dodger · 17 Mar 2011 at 19:47

DanH84 said:
Percentages are pretty irrelevant. It's real numbers that your body is worried about.

If bulking at your weight then I'd probably say around 200g protein, 100g fats then the rest can be whatever you want.

so that's a minimum of 800 you'd be getting from protein, 900 from fat leaving you with just over 1k cals to source from wherever (realistically carbs but don't worry if you get some more protein or fat)

Is 200g of protein too much? That is 1.3 x bodyweight, is a figure of 1g per lean body mass a better formula? What's your view on this?

Dodger · 17 Mar 2011 at 19:51

icecold said:
Minimal carbs, lots of protein and a good amount of fats.

I tend to have brown pasta during lunch, I am eating around 150g carbs during lunch. Would you consider this too high?

icecold · 17 Mar 2011 at 22:23

Yes. Don't worry about eating too much protein either, it's very hard to get to dangerous levels with whole foods.

Edit: too be fair it's actually a delicate balancing act. Carbs at lunch isn't the end of the world, but I would reduce them. If you're desperate to bulk out your meals you can add beans and lentils (not baked beans in sauce!).

Dodger · 17 Mar 2011 at 23:41

icecold said:
Yes. Don't worry about eating too much protein either, it's very hard to get to dangerous levels with whole foods.

Edit: too be fair it's actually a delicate balancing act. Carbs at lunch isn't the end of the world, but I would reduce them. If you're desperate to bulk out your meals you can add beans and lentils (not baked beans in sauce!).

Well I've recently been eating 400g of chicken thighs with 100g of pasta very easily in one sitting during lunch, that's 80g protein in one sitting, is that too much? I thought it was so I dropped it to 300g chicken thighs and increased the carbs to 150g pasta...opinions?

icecold · 18 Mar 2011 at 00:21

Why would 80g be too much? Genuine question, it isn't too much, but if you're unsure of nutrition it would save you a lot of time in the long run to remove any misconceptions early on.

Put the lunch back to the way it was. If you find you are putting on too much fat, remove the pasta or replace with something better.

What does the rest of your diet look like?

Dodger · 18 Mar 2011 at 08:15

icecold said:
Why would 80g be too much? Genuine question, it isn't too much, but if you're unsure of nutrition it would save you a lot of time in the long run to remove any misconceptions early on.

Put the lunch back to the way it was. If you find you are putting on too much fat, remove the pasta or replace with something better.

What does the rest of your diet look like?

I had read many times that trying to digest more than 40g protein in one sitting can be difficult. However, I am guessing this is only for fast digesting protein e.g. a protein shake? I am eating proper food so I guess 80g protein in one sitting should be ok as my body first needs to breakdown the protein, is that the right science behind it?

Rest of diet:

Breakfast: Porridge and 3 x omega 3 tablets
Snack: Orange, banana, apple, white coffee with one sugar
Lunch: 400g chicken thighs with 100g brown pasta
Snack: Almonds, pistachios, cheese string
Pre-training: Protein shake
Post-training: Protein shake and apple or orange or banana
Dinner: 3 whole eggs in an omelette with salad and red onions
Snack: White tea with one sugar

What do you guys think of this diet? :-)

Steedie · 18 Mar 2011 at 08:21

I don't understand why people say low carbs for a clean bulk. It's totally counter productive

You need carbs for muscle growth. You want around 300g a day I'd say.

Carbs get a lot of bad press for no reason. For example, on my pre contest diet, I've lost 25lbs in 6 weeks. and I'm eating 280g of carbs a day

Dodger · 18 Mar 2011 at 08:33

Steedie said:
I don't understand why people say low carbs for a clean bulk. It's totally counter productive

You need carbs for muscle growth. You want around 300g a day I'd say.

Carbs get a lot of bad press for no reason. For example, on my pre contest diet, I've lost 25lbs in 6 weeks. and I'm eating 280g of carbs a day

I agree which is why I posed the high or low carb question as ive seen and read people getting results with both diets. I wanted to try and find out what people on this forum thought bout it. To me I don't mind a high or low carb diet, I just dont want to waste months of training with the wrong diet :-)

Steedie · 18 Mar 2011 at 08:59

And to try and answer your question on protein mate

Your body can handle more than 40g of protein no problem, but the ideal rate for protein synthesis is around 36-40g per meal. It can deal with more than that but it you picture it as a graph, synthesis to protein amount, it would taper off quite quickly after the 36g mark.

Dodger · 18 Mar 2011 at 09:09

Steedie said:
And to try and answer your question on protein mate

Your body can handle more than 40g of protein no problem, but the ideal rate for protein synthesis is around 36-40g per meal. It can deal with more than that but it you picture it as a graph, synthesis to protein amount, it would taper off quite quickly after the 36g mark.

Yeah I understand this which is why I believed 80g to be way to much. However, the synthesis of protein, is that only for fast digesting protein or is it also the same for proper food such as chicken thighs?

BennyC · 18 Mar 2011 at 09:51

Steedie said:
I don't understand why people say low carbs for a clean bulk. It's totally counter productive

You need carbs for muscle growth. You want around 300g a day I'd say.

Carbs get a lot of bad press for no reason. For example, on my pre contest diet, I've lost 25lbs in 6 weeks. and I'm eating 280g of carbs a day

I agree you're trying to grow so you don't want to restrict your carbs too heavily. Between 200 and 300 grams should be plenty for you and I'd recommend cycling the amount so eat more some days and less others to guage how your body is responding to fat gain.

Steedie in regards to your loss you have to remember the amount of calories you were consuming before which would account for some of the loss. Bearing mind you were over eating etc. Just saying

Steedie said:
And to try and answer your question on protein mate

Your body can handle more than 40g of protein no problem, but the ideal rate for protein synthesis is around 36-40g per meal. It can deal with more than that but it you picture it as a graph, synthesis to protein amount, it would taper off quite quickly after the 36g mark.

My macro's are split over 2 meal periods effectively. One feeding is about an hour long and the other 2 hours long. I see about 100grams of protein in to each and I've not noticed any negative effects by doing so.

Steedie · 18 Mar 2011 at 09:58

Oh not at all, like I said, 40g or more is fine, but the efficiency in which your body can synthesise protein after that amount starts to less the more you go over

Dodger · 18 Mar 2011 at 10:41

Okay, so i've decided im going to continue with the high protein and medium-high carbs however, what about fats, should I keep this high or low?

LiE · 18 Mar 2011 at 10:45

Depends on your body type. If your like me and a hard gainer then eating around 3500 cals a day still allows me to put on a small amount of muscle while maintaining low body fat. I've always done this, and although I don't have massive gains compared to some, I'm always lean and look bigger for it.

My macros.

PHP:

 	       Off 	Training
Protein 	249.1   273.4
Carbs 	  335.43  385.63
Fats	    117.83  120.83
Cals	    3255	3530

Dodger · 18 Mar 2011 at 10:55

LiE said:
Depends on your body type. If your like me and a hard gainer then eating around 3500 cals a day still allows me to put on a small amount of muscle while maintaining low body fat. I've always done this, and although I don't have massive gains compared to some, I'm always lean and look bigger for it.

My macros.

PHP:

Off Training Protein 249.1 273.4 Carbs 335.43 385.63 Fats 117.83 120.83 Cals 3255 3530

I have seen that increasing my carbs has given me a lot more energy which is improving my lifts so I am planning on keeping my carbs high 200g - 300g. I notice your protein is lower than your carbs, why is this? Is this the way forward or is this just what works for you?

LiE · 18 Mar 2011 at 11:35

Eating around 40g of protein per meal adds up to about the amount I'm taking in. It also works out at 1.5 x my body weight (lbs) roughly. I don't think I'd need any more, but it would be easy enough to increase.

BennyC · 18 Mar 2011 at 11:36

Steedie said:
Oh not at all, like I said, 40g or more is fine, but the efficiency in which your body can synthesise protein after that amount starts to less the more you go over

Oh yeah, totally I don't dispute this at all. Providing your body has a need for all the protein you put in it will still all be used. Just putting in a **** load at once won't make the body absorb it any quicker.