Make me faster

[Irish_Tom]

Hi everyone,

A little bit of background — I started mountain biking "properly" at the start of 2016, and since then I've made a lot of progress in terms of fitness, confidence and technique. However, I feel like I've hit a bit of a plateau recently and I'm looking for ways to step up to the next level. This is primarily because the guys I ride with are always faster than me. Admittedly, they've all been riding for a lot longer than I have but I don't want to hold them up anymore.

There's a particular loop I do at my local trail (without my riding buddies) and I think it's a decent gauge of performance as it includes a good mix of climbing, flats and descents. I got a PR yesterday — doing it in 22:34 — but I've been hovering around this time since last summer.

After some analysis of my Strava times compared to the KOM and other fast riders, I'm not actually that slow going downhill, it seems most of my time is lost on the climbs. So I assume that it’s a combination of cardio fitness and power output rather than confidence and technique.

I’m trying to improve things by riding twice a week now that the evenings are lighter, but I don’t know if that’s enough or if I should be doing something more specific.

For instance, would it be better to do five or six loops one day, then go flat-out for two loops on the other day or just do three loops each time I go?

Would I benefit from doing some free weights or even body-weight training? I used to lift a bit, so I’m not worried about skipping leg day and I assume that working the core is a good idea in general.

I'm all for putting in the effort, and if it's just a case of "keep riding and the results will come" then I'll just stick at it and be patient, but if there's something I could do to give my training a bit of a boost, I'd really appreciate any advice you can give me.

Cheers!

 

[Irish_Tom]

Not sure on the training side of things, but interval training might be an idea, along with doing squats, lots of squats That will soon get your core and leg muscles stronger.

Good point about the type of climbing. It’s a combination of not-too-steep but rooty, mixed with some short steep bits of hard-packed gravel as well as longer gravel stretches. Nothing too technical in terms of obsticales but plenty of switchbacks.

I thought squats might be the answer.

Get on the static bike in the gym and build your power output (aswell as CV system, etc). Great complement to actual riding. You may lose weight in the process which will help with the power/weight ratio.

Suprising what even a 2/3kg loss can do for you on the bike in addition to the increases in fitness.

I had a turbo set up over winter but had to dismantle it earlier than planned due to putting our house on the market.

Also, as it was a dumb trainer I didn’t really trust the power readings I got from Zwift. I was thinking about getting a smart direct-drive trainer for winter this year.

Also a good point about the weight. I’m actually about as thin as I’ve ever been (as an adult) but it’s not like I have 0% body fat either, so there’s potential to lose a bit.

I’d assumed that I’d need to put on a bit of muscle weight rather than lose weight though.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Don't forget the recovery aspect either (nutrition). Sometimes gets overlooked in cycling but post-ride protein helps nicely with reducing soreness and helping you to go harder next time around, particularly when you've got short breaks between rides.

You don't really need a fancy power meter for training, good old-fashioned HR monitoring and RPE (relative perceived exertion) is enough.

Thanks again Fusion — I'll look into post-ride nutrition.

Heart rate is a funny one; no matter how long or how hard a ride, I tend to go from normal to 170bpm almost instantly (my max HR is 190 I believe) and then stay there for the duration.

I had hoped that after two years of regular riding this would have changed/improved but it just seems that's how I'm wired up… I'm consistently in Zone 4 for 75%+ on every ride.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Hmmm. Are you riding flat out (or very close to)? What bike do you have (i.e. is it a really burly enduro type rig that needs a lot of power on the climbs and flats)?

It’s a Canyon Nerve AL 9.9 (2016) so it’s a 29er — not the smallest or lightest bike but equally it’s not like I’m trying to climb with a meaty downhill bike.

It’s not like I’m tearing around at 100% effort all of the time either, I just seen to have a high operating heart rate…

 

[Irish_Tom]

Nothing beats time on the bike. A road bike will help, so much easier to get out a ride.

Squatting and strong legs helps with MTB'n. But more time on the bike = fitter.

Yeah, it's just trying to work out if there's a better/more effective way of using my time on the bike to achieve the results I'm after. Either by changing the kind of rides I do or changing my approach to my current regular loop(s).

 

[Irish_Tom]

Train indoors. TrainerRoad.

Structure & periodisation will make you more powerful and ultimately faster. Providing you don't get fat along the way

A power figure doesn't need to be accurate, it just needs to be reliably consistent, initially anyway.

Do you think TR is better than Zwift for structured programs? I always enjoyed doing the Zwift workouts but it was always very much a case of "I fancy doing the SST(med) today" rather than having the app say "today do X, in two days do Y and at the end of the week do Z".

I went for a ride last night, including post-ride protein shake and felt pretty good despite the wet and mud.

I read somewhere that for really effective training, you should ride a minimum of three times a week. So I'm thinking of sticking to two rides/week in May and then step up to three for the rest of the summer.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Yes, very much so.

Your plan is specified and less generic and works to your time constraints.

It's all relative.

Three will be better than two if you can recover enough in between. Two is still fine though.

Thanks chaps, I will check out Trainer Road and try and build up to riding three times a week.

I’ll try to remember to keep this thread updated with my progress as well.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Did a few loops yesterday and improved my PR to 21 minutes dead.

Quite pleased with the difference over my previous PR from a week ago. What’s more, my second slower loop was only 20 seconds off my PR from last week.

Still a way off the KOM (13:37) — not that I plan on ever fighting for it — but it’s something to work towards.

It seems like the extra mid-week rides are already helping even though I’ve only done a few.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Thanks for the continued encouragement guys.

I made further progress yesterday (took another 20 seconds off) and that was on a run where I got held up at one point and I was focusing more on keeping a consistent (high) cadence than actually worrying about my time — so that's promising.

I'm definitely not using the KOM as my ultimate goal, but it does motivate me to do better. My thinking is, if they can do it five minutes quicker than me (and most of that time is on the climbs) then I should be able to shave ~three minutes off with a bit of training.

I've just agreed to do the Winchester to Brighton South Downs Way (100 miles) for British Heart Foundation in July with some of my riding buddies, so now I've got an event to work towards.

It will mean shifting the focus of my training from speed over a short distance to endurance over a longer distance. Hopefully, the increase in fitness I'll need to do the 100 miles will help with my personal target of the loop in the OP.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Snip!

Were you there for the demo day? Ride anything good?

I've found that a HR monitor has helped me track progress over time but I've also starting to use it to control my effort during the ride.

As I said earlier, as soon as I start riding up any kind of incline, my HR jumps to 170bpm+, but I've noticed recently that it's also dropping back down again much faster.

I did a ride over the BHW — all on the flat — and I was able to control my effort to keep my HR at around 130bpm (Zone 2) for 2+ hours.

Looking at the British Cycling training plans, they all suggest three rides per week with mostly low-medium effort rides, and then just increase the time/distance. I think my trouble thus far has been that I've been going for relatively short rides (<10 miles), once a week and going high effort every time, trying to improve my time.

 

[Irish_Tom]

A properly periodised plan will see you progress faster than just picking random efforts. Equally (and essentially) a bit of everything in moderation will do you good.

Have you seen/used the BC training plans? If so, do you rate them or is there anything better out there worth looking at other than Trainer Road? I'm thinking for off the turbo.

Mountain biking is just one big interval session anyway really isn't it!

I've always thought that too!

Apologies for the thread hijacking, I promise I'll start my own soon

No worries, highjack away!

How did the base mile ride go? I did 34.85 miles today in 3 hours 17 minutes (pretty much all Zone 2). It was my first ever ride with SPDs and I can feel muscles in my legs that I never knew I had!

My biggest issue seems to be having zero energy left in my legs after a few minutes at high HR (150+, 85-95% of max, zone 4 of 5) I literally cannot stand and sprint for more than a few seconds after a few minutes of this. Which is basically every single climb for me.

I know this feeling; I've been building up my standing–sprint resistance recently by not sitting down at all on the downhill sections of my usual loop and gunning it whenever I can. However, when it comes to climbing, I find it much easier to say seated and try and keep my cadence high, even if it means going up slowly in the granny ring. Trying to grind out low cadence in a harder gear is a short recipe for knackered legs!

Pointless trying to beat KOM's as I found out really.. Set a few only to get beat, then realised people were using e-bikes for the climbs and straight lining the tracks on the way down..

Sometimes isn't that easy depending on what trail, plus in wooded areas, Strava can go a little mental and take 10 seconds or so off randomly. OR place you half way into a segment and count it anyway.

But when it works, you normally find it's a local or a pro that has the KOM. E-bikes have their own strava place and should use them!

My inlaws live in Germany and there's some decent riding where they live. There are a couple of hills with Strava segments and there's one guy who's KOM on everything. He calls himself the Doner Fox and, because they have a lot of Turkish takeaways in Germany, I swear he's a delivery boy and uses a moped!

In all seriousness though, that guy has done 2,500 miles already this year — he's clearly got the strength, stamina and fitness to smash those hills, so fair play to him.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Thought I'd update this as it's been almost a month since my last post.

Last weekend I did a 46-mile ride with 5,000ft of climbing, mostly along the South Downs Way, and it was tough. I'm not convinced I could do the same again (plus 8 miles) in one go.

However, a friend of mine suggested that part of the problem may be my tyres. I was running a Magic Mary / Hans Dampf combination which was very grippy and great for the downhill stuff, but heavy with a high rolling resistance for more XC stuff.

For today's ride, I decided to swap back to my old Continental setup (Mountain-King II / X-King) and I hit the blue loop in the OP hard for the first time in a while.

I took over 2 minutes off my previous PR — a 10.7% improvement! I'm now down to 17:32, compared to the 22:34 that I was pleased with in the OP. It also gets me into the top 50 on Strava (currently 43 /1,324).

I'm sure most of this was down to the lower RR tyres, but some of it must be attributed to my improving fitness.

I also think the lower RR tyres would have made my recent 46-miler a bit less of a slog. If you've read the 'Mountain Bike' thread recently, you'll have seen that I'm agonising over what tyres to buy next…

 

[Irish_Tom]

Bit of a thread bump.

I went for Nobby Nics front and rear in the end, and I've been very happy with them so far. They seem to provide a good balance of grip and rolling resistance, although they haven't yet been tested in the clay and mud of the South Downs when it's wet.

@toprock — interesting thought on the spinning — I'll see if there's somewhere local to give it a try.

@willhub — I know what you're saying, but as per the OP, I felt like I was holding my friends up and that was impacting on the fun. Using the loop at QECP gave me a regular structured route that I could measure myself against, and I found it really helped.

This summer has been great. Apart from a brief lull moving house, I've been getting in two or three rides per week and it's made a huge difference to my overall fitness, confidence and speed — something noted by one of my riding buddies when we went out a week ago.

My last three rides have been 16 / 19 / 17 miles, with 1,600 / 1,800 / 1,100 ft climbing respectively — and I haven't found them too taxing. I've probably plateaued a bit recently, but the step up from where I was at the end of April has been massive. This coming week will be a good measure of my progress, as I'm going for a few rides with 'the boys' across a range of routes. I fully expect to be able to keep up with them this time!