Manual overclocking v automatic

[ennogs]

I see the new MSI big bang motherboard has onboard automatic overclocking features

Quote

"Push to overclock in 1 second

MSI’s original invention, a fully automatic, smart overclocking chip.
It will automatically detect the optimal settings for your individual system"

Do you think it will be able to overclock automatically as good as a manual overclock?

http://eu.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=1938

 

[DavyBoy]

I personally don't like the idea of automatic overclocking, pushing one button for an instant o/c doesn't seem right!!

At least with manual overclocking, you know what you have set everything to, whereas, these automatic things could be overvolting like crazy.

 

[JonJ678]

Automatic overclocking has a historical record of overvolting everything and reaching lower overclocks than manual overclocking despite this. I will be astonished if msi have produced a system which comes close to what manual tweaking achieves.

The end of overclocking will come from intel's turbo tech, not with "overclock in one second" buttons.

 

[Big.Wayne]

Manual overclocking v automatic

I think Automatic-Overclocking and O/S-Overclocking is the future . . . although we ain't quite there yet!

Most overclockers worth their salt are quite able to get their work done in the BIOS and there is a general consensus that anything [Auto] or O/S based is not a good idea and is generally frowned upon or poo-poo'ed! . . . however I have been playing around with the alternatives to build up my own opinion on these so called *gimmicky* nOOb friendly overclocking features and I have to say I was pleasantly suprised, there's been definite progress in this area and I encourage any overclocker with new kit to evaluate the alternatives . . .

A nOOby reading through dozens of threads dating back a few years may get the impression that having a voltage set to [Auto] is gonna over-volt their precious hardware and burn it up in a sea of flames but I think this is web-mumour at work . . . . I've done a fair bit of testing and have found that sometimes utilizing the [Auto] settings can help (not hinder) an overclock, it's just a case of keeping an open mind on things and knowing that the BIOS engineers put a lot of work into some of these [Auto] settings so we shouldn't just assume its garbage, try it for yourself and see!

I have a good play with AMD Overdrive™ which is both O/S based and features an [Auto] overclocking feature, ran it on a stock AMD system and after one hour it had overclocked the chip from 2.7GHz to 3.3GHz . . . while I had a bath!

I've since worked out the overclock myself but it was handy too see what the chip could do and it reminded me of the way AMD Overdrive™ works for GPU's in the Catalyst Control Center™, just click a button and let it do its thing!

 

[Big.Wayne]

I personally don't like the idea of automatic overclocking

You should have a good think about the reasons why you don't like the idea!

pushing one button for an instant o/c doesn't seem right!!

Heh if only it was instant! . . . at least the AMD Overdrive™ software I tested took an hour or more to zone in on the overclock

At least with manual overclocking, you know what you have set everything to

Well if the software is hooked up to all the sensors then you would get a complete display of each and every volt, temp, fan rpm, memory settings etc etc . . . think about it!

these automatic things could be overvolting like crazy.

Well you say that like overvolting is the black death! . . . it's not that bad, at least I've not suffered any real problems ever from over-volting apart from say increased temps and probably increased power draw (and running costs £££), I agree with you it's not a desirable thing really in anyway apart from if you gotta pick from too little voltage and too much voltage it's probably better to have too much! Of course the skilled and patient overclocker will have the know how to get the voltages tweaked and spot on but I don't see it as a problem having a helping hand from a Clock-Bot to relieve me of the burden of overclocking!

Clock-Bot - Possible Future Of Overclocking?

 

[Big.Wayne]

Automatic overclocking has a historical record of overvolting everything and reaching lower overclocks than manual overclocking

It's true!

Doesn't mean it's always gonna be so, it's getting better for sure!

The end of overclocking will come from intel's turbo tech

You can see what a smart technology that is, made me very excited when I understood it was in essence a Self-Overclocking Processor

not with "overclock in one second" buttons.

Like I said to DavyBoy there not *Instant* clocks, it does take a long time, at least it does with AMD Overdrive™

I'm not sure why the prospect of having technology to assist overclocking and tweaking doesn't sit well with everyone? . . I think it's a great prospect!

 

[JonJ678]

I don't see why it's quite so difficult to automate. The algorithms for overclocking various combinations of hardware are straightforward and I believe some software is able to override bios values from within windows. All that is required is a reliable way of affecting permanent changes in the bios from within software. I guess the amd software basically does this, but without the permanent changes, while using different stability testing software as well as rather rushing it.

A mature turbo boost should be able to run at the same speeds an overclocker could achieve, as and when required. The idea of throttling based on current density and temperature as well as load is an excellent one. Naturally it'll never push quite as hard as an aggressive/novice overclocker as it would look bad if Intels chips routinely killed themselves.

However unlike you I am not excited by this prospect. It marks the end of overclocking and I feel this is a crying shame. I'd much rather have a machine to tweak than one which does everything for me. It's a toy as much as a workstation; no sane man would have plans on putting tecs in a workstation. I only hope that overclocking will survive for at least a few generations still to come.

 

[Big.Wayne]

I don't see why it's quite so difficult to automate. The algorithms for overclocking various combinations of hardware are straightforward and I believe some software is able to override bios values from within windows

I am thinking it's something to do with the myriad of different hardware configurations and the way they all interact with each other? . . .

I think the way forward will be some kind of sandbox type technology where the computer can perform testing on itself in a safe area with no chance of taking the main system down. . .

Another thing I was wondering is when O/S based style clocking comes of age what kinda viruses are we gonna start seeing!

Sasser Overvolt etc

The idea of throttling based on current density and temperature as well as load is an excellent one

I can't remember what it was called but the hardware responsible for Intel® Turbo Boost is quite impressive, real time polling and monitoring of TDP and such . . . making adjustments on the fly and according to load, all clever stuff!

However unlike you I am not excited by this prospect. It marks the end of overclocking and I feel this is a crying shame

Heh I felt the same when I first saw Fatal1ty branded overclocking products!

I think it will be a synergy between man and machine though, at least until the computers really really start getting smart and knowing how to overclock better than us . . . . starting to think the plot of The Terminator may not be so far fetched

I'd much rather have a machine to tweak than one which does everything for me. It's a toy as much as a workstation

I know exactly what you mean however I suspect this is due to the fact that you know better than any of the hardware you have worked with, what I'm saying is that when you first got into overclocking/tweaking if the [Auto Overclock] button/software had done a stellar job you may now have a completely different hobby!

I only hope that overclocking will survive for at least a few generations still to come.

Jon, you crack me up!

 

[JonJ678]

The computer disabling itself irrecoverably is a potential issue, though I haven't managed to force a bios reset on my UD5 yet and I've been fairly stupid with it at times. It generally picks up, loads defaults, chides me gently then continues quite happily.

On the face of it hardware reacts differently depending on configuration, but it's not so complex. Given temperature monitoring case airflow can be ignored. Stability testing doesn't really help tell if the voltage regulation is giving up or the northbridge is, but trial and error increasing voltages at random works for most people and shouldn't be so hard to automate. It would mean leaving the computer for ages though, if overclocking manually takes three days I can't see automatic being faster.

Virus's I'll have to pass on as I don't understand how they work. Zeroing the first 512 bytes of a hard drive is almost instant and would confuse the hell out of most people, especially since it would only ruin them when they rebooted. Writing any form of nonsense to the bios would defeat any single chip board, if flashing to a new bios is possible then this should be. Yet neither of these seem to exist, I guess because virus's are trying to make money for the maker and not just cause damage. Hope so anyway.

I'm new to this game man, started on an e8400 with G35 chipset. Auto would have done alright. No fun though. It'll probably do alright on my UD5 as well, but still not going to use it. I won't do until it's actually better than manual.

Jon, you crack me up!

Love you too man

 

[DavyBoy]

Hi Wayne,

I think this MSI one the OP was referring to is a "push one button" affair.

The OS overclocking apps like AMD overdrive are different to what the OP was referring to.

In the past, I have tinkered with software overclocking tools like Gigabyte's EasyTune, the first time I played with this was on an old AMD 939 system, and it was nasty back then, the minute you tried to make even the finest of adjustments to overclock your processor, it always resulted in a system freeze for me.

I figured when I got my UD5 I would have another crack at EasyTune, as I thought it would probably be a lot better than it was on the 939 system, but I installed it, and found it to be really dire again, the only part of it that worked for me was the automatic overclocking feature, which the highest I managed to get my chip was 3.2GHz.

When I tried to do anything higher than this manually, it would cause my system to lock up!!

For these reasons alone I tend to stay away from any software overclocking tools, and much prefer tinkering with the BIOS instead!!!

::edit::

Regarding the over-volting, I can't speak for any other mobos around atm, but when I first tried some mild overclocking when I put this system together, with the Vcore on Auto, and a small bump in Bclk for a 3GHz o/c, it would bump the Vcore right up to 1.355v, when my chip only needs 1.18v for 3GHz, so god knows how high it would put the voltages up to if you were trying to hit 200+ Bclk..

 

[Big.Wayne]

I think this MSI one the OP was referring to is a "push one button" affair.

Indeed!

The OS overclocking apps like AMD overdrive are different to what the OP was referring to.

as is the *instant* overclocking of the Core i5/i7's

It's a double whammy for me, first was the realization of what and how the new Intel® Turbo Boost Technology worked, followed up by a couple of days playing with AMD Overdrive™

I have no experience of things like the MSI Overclock Genie so I'll get my coat!