Manual

[Ricochet J]

Why would anyone buy a manual gearbox nowadays? Since switching to automatic (CVT) my life has become a million percent easier. I don't think I'll ever go back to manual.

 

[Ricochet J]

If I was buying a car which was primarily a plaything, I'd absolutely want a manual gearbox. I love a good manual gear change.

But for day-to-day trudging around, I love my autobox.

I've just gone Auto (DSG) and it's awesome; it's perfect for the weekly commute in stop/start traffic.
However if you seek driving engagement or want something fun for the weekend a manual would be the way to go. Also they are usually £1k+ cheaper.

In sports cars (see M3, RS4, C63 etc) you have optional paddle shift which is the best of both worlds surely.

 

[Ricochet J]

I would buy a manual over a CVT as CVTs are horrible but otherwise I agree. No more manual for me since moving to the ZF8HP.

I disagree about your comment on CVTs. Sure in an M3 they're not fit for purpose. In a 2L Megane they're very good.

 

[Ricochet J]

Fantastic compared to what? An ancient auto?

Fantastic compared to standard automatics (excl DSG type systems as they hold their own) sold nowadays.

 

[Ricochet J]

I know what a CVT is like and would take a proper auto over one every day of the week with the possible exception of particularly small engines.

What's a proper auto anyway? Slushbox? DCT? CVT? SMG?

 

[Ricochet J]

What's with all the CVT hate? Granted that they're not on par with something like 9G-Tronic, but they're fantastic at economic, effortless driving. I'm yet to hear of any concrete, rational reason why someone would hate a CVT. They're good boxes suited for their purpose.

 

[Ricochet J]

My Megane is a 2L petrol with a Japanese CVT and the power delivery and response is great - I am not dissapointed at all. I'm comparing this to a like for like Golf and Focus - both which I drove recently. The Golf's DSG was better and snappier at just finding the "sweet" spot and changed at just the right time (the CVT never "truly" changes gear). The Ford's Powershift (also a dual clutch system) had some minor lag when you put your footdown - obviously these cars are no Bentley Flying Spur. Neither do they have Ferrari 458 levels of power. The cars I drove were designed to get you to work, do some shopping, perhaps put your foot down once or twice to crack a smirk and that's about it. I'm wasn't expecting miracles - I was expecting the boxes to perform well given today's technology.

In all fairness all automatics I drove were great. Some slightly better than others. But I wouldn't go out and say I hated any of them. At the market I was looking at I wasn't after ample power, but I wasn't after something gutless either. In my car I find that the CVT is able to transmit the power well to the front two wheels, smoothly and responsively.

I think the CVT does get a lot of undue stick.

Now what is a seriously great gearbox is the 9G Tronic.

Edit: I forgot to add I did also drive my aunty's mk4 Golf 1.6L automatic - an x reg! Goodness it was poor!

 

[Ricochet J]

Poor example of trying to get my point across then. Saying that, gearbox alone is not enough - if you have a **** poor engine no level of DSG will help that.

 

[Ricochet J]

plus, I actually like it. it feels mechanical, like you are actually driving as opposed to just pressing the throttle and letting everything go on around you, or flipping a little plastic paddle.

Thing is, within the next 20 years cars will become increasingly more automated. Current trends even suggest self driving cars within 40 years. You either have to go with it, or remain in the stone age.

I'm not suggesting by not having an automatic you're in the stone age - what I am saying is don't be surprised 10 years from now if you can't buy a new manual transmission car.

 

[Ricochet J]

They honestly receive a lot of undeserved stick for what is essentially a great gearbox. You may argue "they're not widespread which proves that they're rubbish", which is a ridiculous thing to say. It's simply the stigma attached to CVT which has caused its downfall. They're quite popular in Asian markets especially Japan. I'm not sure where this "CVT is rubbish" attitude has come from.

By example the Jaguar X type never sold in huge numbers despite being a good car simply because Jaguar purists kept spouting "it's based on a Mondeo". So what? The stigma killed the X Type.

 

[Ricochet J]

Nobody has said that.

You said that in other terms!

That they remain relatively uncommon is testament to this, they are simply not as good.

No it's not and there has been no 'downfall' of the CVT box either. It's still around, doing what it does best - providing an efficient automatic solution for smaller engined and compact cars where packaging and efficiency are the primary concerns. The main threat to the CVT is the dual clutch auto, which are becoming more and more popular in smaller engined cars and also offer the efficiency benefits of a CVT whilst increasing the flexibility and drive-ability of the transmission.

I actually agree with you in that they're fantastic gearboxes when used in an appropriate setting. Downfall was the wrong choice of word - I'd revise that and say popularity among critics.

They are popular in Asian markets because the Asian markets buy a lot of cars to which CVT boxes are well suited - small capacity midsize cars and below.

The 2015 Subaru WRX has surprised many critics with its CVT! It's "only" a 2L but it's 268-hp!

Japan don't produce saloons as popular as the Germans do. You rarely hear of CVTs in large cars. But they do exist! Lexus put paired the CVT with a 5.0L V8!

I have no idea why you keep making this point, which is irrelevant.

It's the first time I've made this point And it's not irrelevant. In this post a few lines up I've said in other words the CVT has not been a popular choice with critics because of the psychological effect - there's a stigma associated with the CVT. Much like how when the X Type was released, despite it being a good car, critics mauled it for being related to the Mondeo! Which BTW has a good all round chassis anyway! You can draw parallels between the two examples. Ultimately I expect the CVT to be pushed out of the market within 20 years due to the "lol CVT" attitude - or at least very rare in Europe and the US.

The CVT box is not as refined, flexible or capable as a torque converter automatic.

Absolutely it is refined! Seamless "transition" in the infinite gear ratios means you don't have that jerk effect when a traditional auto changes gears. The CVT keeps the engine at peak power at the correct RPM. My car is able to do 60, 70, 80 mph and so on whilst remaining at 2.5k RPM. I never feel the engine struggle despite being a 4 pot 2L petrol.

Look at where all the CVT boxes are. Look at where all the torque converter autos are. Different boxes for different purposes. a Nissan Micra 1.2 with a ZF 6 speed auto would suck, just as a BMW 550i with a CVT would suck.

I'm actually agreeing with you here! Make a note of that! I'm not saying there's a one size fits all gearbox. What I am saying is the CVT is better than what people think!