Masking car error before trade-in

stoofa · 6 Sep 2018 at 08:44

So, you're looking for a new car, you set your budget and have a rough idea of how much your own vehicle is worth - more than 7 years old, over 100k on the clock etc.
You're just about ready to go and look at a potential new car or two when your own car throws up a yellow warning. You ask the car what is wrong, it tells you and you investigate.
There is an issue, however all the documents tell you that you'd be hard pushed to know there was a problem unless the light was on. You confirm, you cannot "feel" anything wrong with the car.

The light starts being intermittent. It'll come on, you'll drive around with it for a week and then it'll go out.
You drive up to the dealership, look at new cars but before doing so you plug in your own device and clear all current errors, no more warning lights and no errors listed.
Car is inspected, everything is taken into consideration and you're given a price you're happy with.

You drive around for another week until it is swap-over time, light stays off until the drive down to the dealership when it comes on again.
You park up, say your final goodbye to the car and at the same time clear the error once more.
Deal goes through, you leave your car behind and you drive off in your "new to you" vehicle.

Morally:- Pretty low. Really should have let them know as it'll probably reflect in the value etc.
Legally:- ???

Cheers.

kaptainmarc · 6 Sep 2018 at 08:55

Nothing wrong with it in my eyes, that's why they buy cars at a much reduced rate as they know they will have to fix some issues, but most garages obviously wont be paying the labour premiums

azazl187 · 6 Sep 2018 at 08:55

You are asking for a friend right?

. What did the code point towards? If it was something unimportant then i wouldnt worry about going to hell, stealerships screw people over all the time to try and make a buck, it levels the playing field slightly it happening the other way round. I cant help but think they will end up doing exactly the same though and sell it on like that....

Come to think of it, the exchange offers that they make on cars drastically lowers the price on your car so i think they can afford to fix it.

Dunks · 6 Sep 2018 at 09:09

kaptainmarc said:
Nothing wrong with it in my eyes, that's why they buy cars at a much reduced rate as they know they will have to fix some issues, but most garages obviously wont be paying the labour premiums

There was me thinking they buy them at a reduced rate to sell them on at the correct price for a profit.

Semple · 6 Sep 2018 at 09:21

Wouldn't bat an eyelid if it was me.

As above, they screw enough customers over with dodgy cars. It's just a risk in that part of the business.

Vita · 6 Sep 2018 at 09:23

Error codes can be a minefield. As long as the car drove as it did and they were happy with it shouldn’t be a problem.

Janesy B · 6 Sep 2018 at 09:33

Wouldn't worry about it.

rodenal · 6 Sep 2018 at 09:35

You are not an expert and the car was handed over as inspected

Proving anything legally would be far more hassle than it would be worth to the trader, who by the sounds of it may well move the car straight on / to auction anyway

Armageus · 6 Sep 2018 at 09:41

Dunks said:
There was me thinking they buy them at a reduced rate to sell them on at the correct price for a profit.

If they are going to resell, then some of that "profit" is factored into their obligation to provide a car that is "fit for purpose" under consumer rights (e.g. any potential issues they have to deal with).

Depending on what's being traded in / what sort of stock the dealer keeps, then as above may just be auctioned rather than dealer taking a risk.

sovietspybob · 6 Sep 2018 at 10:16

A lot of peoples attitudes to using a dealer trade in of a car is because there are issues big or small with it. I've heard lots of times from people i work with that they traded their car in as they couldn't be bothered sorting X or Y and took the hit on the value compared to selling other ways, a few have been as bad as having to have someone follow them to the dealer in case it didn't make it there under it's own power.

Psycho Sonny · 6 Sep 2018 at 11:36

i think legally you are in the wrong too as you are committing fraud. however it would be difficult to prove. unless of course they look on here.

Nasher · 6 Sep 2018 at 11:37

Not sure what come-back the dealer has, I don't think a they have the same kind of protection as customers.

hyperseven · 6 Sep 2018 at 11:45

doesnt an odb2 check show that the errors have recently been cleared?

inflames · 6 Sep 2018 at 11:58

I personally i don't see the issue, dealers know this happens and they will just have to cough for the repair. Now selling it privately again nothing wrong with it, its just morally wrong maybe?
I recently sold my previous car privately, the lad turned up and test drove the car he was happy but wanted to look at another. Next day the management light flicked on for about 10 mins or so then went off. He wanted to come have a second look and i felt i needed to tell him as i wouldn't want to sell a dodgy car to a private buyer. It came on again the day he came back to look at it, so i waited till he arrived we read the code the CAT or a Lambda sensor had failed. The buyer was still happy, brought it with the knowledge that the light had came on and he brought car from a honest person.

mccarf · 6 Sep 2018 at 11:59

Yeah I've done it with my worst 2 cars now. They were to bad to sell privately because I don't want to sell a pile of crap to a private buyer and have them suffer with it. To me the fact they give massively reduced offers for trade ins justifies the gap between what it's worth and what it will cost them to repair it, as well as the fact they're making money on the car I'm buying from them anyway.

Armageus · 6 Sep 2018 at 12:04

hyperseven said:
doesnt an odb2 check show that the errors have recently been cleared?

Not that I'm aware of

stoofa · 6 Sep 2018 at 12:55

Thanks for the responses. I'm about to start going to look at cars and I've got a figure in mind for my own, but of course any yellow lights are going to see a knock-down on the offer I'm sure.
For ME to fix the issue would be a lot more than for the Dealer to fix the issue - parts at cost, labour at cost vs the inflated customer quotes.
If for a second I thought the dealer would attempt to knock off what it would cost them to ultimately resolve, then I'd probably be a lot more upfront.
The worst case for the dealer would be the requirement for a new intake manifold, the best case - some squirts of WD40

Psycho Sonny · 6 Sep 2018 at 15:37

your kidding yourself on here. their increased costs on your car are just going to be passed onto their other customers.

it's why you get such low offers in the first place.

Howard · 6 Sep 2018 at 16:01

Consumers have legal rights when buying cars from dealers, so I'd feel a lot less guilty about palming off a troublesome car onto a trader than I would a member of the public via a private sale.

lordrobs · 6 Sep 2018 at 16:26

Depends on the situation. Large used car franchise or main dealer I wouldn't think twice about it. Dodgy Dave's Autos who just happens to have the car you want and is a bit of a slime ball to deal with... I'd probably be ok with doing it. Small family run used car dealership who give excellent service and look after their customers... probably not TBH.