MCITP/MCTS qualifications questions

Devrij

Devrij

Devrij

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Hopefully some of you on here can answer these questions if you've been through it yourselves.

I'm looking to start a career in IT and am considering studying for and taking some MCITP exams (maybe server admin/enterprise admin, I'm not sure yet).

At the moment, my knowledge extends to just building PCs and fiddling about with them, so I'm a noob to doing anything beyond fixing issues that've cropped up on my rig.

Are these certs worth having (considering the cost of each exam)? What learning materials did you use? Did you buy books, find online resources, any free learning guides?

Basically, where do I start, how long should it take (roughly), and was it worth it for you?

Thanks!
 
There's quite a lot involved in properly answering all of your questions. When you say that you're looking to start a career in IT, I assume you mean supporting Windows networks? From what I've seen it's difficult to break into supporting Windows Server environments directly, most people start doing desktop support.
 
Of course, excuse my ignorance of the whole thing. What sort of qualifications do I need to get into desktop support, with an aim to progress?
 
Start the MCITP exam track with the Windows 7 client exam and maybe look into the Comptia A+ (basic hardware support) and N+ (mini Cisco CCNA) exams. That should be enough to get some interviews.
 
Warbie said:
Start the MCITP exam track with the Windows 7 client exam and maybe look into the Comptia A+ (basic hardware support) and N+ (mini Cisco CCNA) exams. That should be enough to get some interviews.
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Awesome, cheers. A+ and Network+, here I come!
 
Sound advice from Warbie. Once you've done A+ and N+, if you find you still want to move forward you could then look at the Windows 7 client exam (70-680) that Warbie mentioned. Then it's a case of doing 70-640 (Active Directory), 70-642 (Network Infrastructure) would be your next port of call, as they apply to both MCITP:EA and MCITP:SA. The Microsoft Press books seem to be quite well regarded for these exams, and they're not overly expensive.

One resource that I use quite often is techexams.net (hopefully it's okay to mention another forum here) - there are a lot of other people in a similar situation who post there, and have asked the same sort of questions as you.
 
Just ran through a sample test of A+ on the CompTIA website and scored just below a pass, so shouldn't need too much study to pass that one. All these exams are bloody expensive though :( I'll need a job to do the exams to get a job!
 
The A+ is relatively straightforward; most people consider it to be very much an entry level certification. The Windows 7 configuration exam (70-680) isn't too bad from what I understand; if you're familiar with installing and configuring Windows 7 and can troubleshoot basic problems, you should not need to study too extensively.

The Server 2008 exams are much harder, as they require you to have a very sound knowledge of a number of technologies. Microsoft themselves suggest that they are aimed at people who have been working with the technology in a professional context for at least a year before attempting the exams. As you've already discovered, the exams are not cheap, and so having to re-sit failed exams gets expensive rather quickly. I have failed the 70-640 exam twice, and so I've decided to not make another attempt until I've gone through all the training material and fully understand it.

I'm curious about something though; what has made you decide that this is something you want to invest time in? What do you currently do for a living?
 
Im just finishing off my Cisco CCENT course and plan to do the MCITP package over the coming 12 months.

Ive no server experience so i have invested heavily in order to get where i want to be. Ive brought a ML110 G7 server running server 2008r2 and just waiting for my MCITP self study book boxset to arrive to assist me with my studies aswell as Trainsignal material.
Its not going to be easy as Saundie has already mentioned but everything is in the books and on the trainsignal and combined with my server i should be able to get all the experience i need at home.

Server £300 (includes additional RAM etc)
MCITP Boxset: £60
Trainsignal: £:p

a lot of money for me to be spending right now but i know with my determination and desire to get where i want to be i know i can do it and it will pay dividends.

Im also going to be doing windows 7 config (70-680) in the next month or two just to have as i will probably be looking to start out in desktop support as Saundie also mentioned.
 
Remember that most employers are looking for long term staff - people with lots of drive and certs don't tend to stick around long and may deter them from hiring you.

Keep it to one MCTS or one CompTIA course when you apply, imo.
 
dLockers said:
Remember that most employers are looking for long term staff - people with lots of drive and certs don't tend to stick around long and may deter them from hiring you.

Keep it to one MCTS or one CompTIA course when you apply, imo.
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Or they may actually see that you have proven that you have the drive to actually get certified so you can provide a better service to your customers. Most companies will pay for the exams and training material (well most decent companies anyway). My certs have gotten me interviews so I'd say they were very much worth there money and time spent obtaining them.

Microsoft exams are a lot harder and require a lot more study than most people think. Most people think 'well I use Windows 7 everday surely it can't be that hard' when, in fact, the exam hits server side such technologies as well.

Best place to start would be the books and see how you go from there (most books come with practice questions as well so you can see how you are progressing).



M.
 
Also, and this is just a bugbear of mine, helpful to say more than just MCITP as there isn't just one, you can become an MCITP in various MS technologies :)

As has been said probably helpful to aim for the desktop one first then take it from there.

I've also not been of the opinion that you shouldn't go for certs and that it'll harm your chances.
 
I know my theory may sound easier said then done but i look at it like this. Anything from the likes of Microsoft or any other developer for that matter can be understood if the time is put in. For general use, your average user knows how to access the start menu, program files, launch internet browsers and so on. All of which they didnt know at some stage. Now, all of above are basics of windows, office etc and are like second nature to us now so how hard is it to learn the rest of what the application offers?

My original plan was to go from the CCENT on to the CCNA but the last few chapters of module two have got me into the nitty gritty of routing and routing protocols and actual configuration, all of which is pretty tricky as its using a lot of cmd line and "programming" like language. (Which i know Windows use too).

However, i feel i will be able to learn and navigate my way round the likes of Server software a lot quicker and apply that knowledge sooner than later than i can my learning my Cisco material. Also, its easier buying an office style server to help with my studies than to buy them awful looking Cisco starter kits that take up a lot of room.

At the end of the day, i know what i want to do for now and its up to me and me only to get myself there, What ever it takes. Fair enough, if i wanted to go to Mars i doubt i could pull than off but my chosen career is definitely doable and im really excited about getting myself there.
 
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Saundie said:
The A+ is relatively straightforward; most people consider it to be very much an entry level certification. The Windows 7 configuration exam (70-680) isn't too bad from what I understand; if you're familiar with installing and configuring Windows 7 and can troubleshoot basic problems, you should not need to study too extensively.

The Server 2008 exams are much harder, as they require you to have a very sound knowledge of a number of technologies. Microsoft themselves suggest that they are aimed at people who have been working with the technology in a professional context for at least a year before attempting the exams. As you've already discovered, the exams are not cheap, and so having to re-sit failed exams gets expensive rather quickly. I have failed the 70-640 exam twice, and so I've decided to not make another attempt until I've gone through all the training material and fully understand it.

I'm curious about something though; what has made you decide that this is something you want to invest time in? What do you currently do for a living?
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I worked in Currys for a few years while doing my sociology degree (which, although it's a degree, isn't much use otherwise). I've just moved up north and left Currys (couldn't get a transfer anyway), so now I'm faced with the need to start a career. My main interests are computers and photography, and I know which one will be more likely to provide a consistent job! I spend hours on my PC learning about PCs anyway, so it makes sense to structure my learning towards a goal, I guess.

I like fixing things and enjoy the satisfaction of solving problems, so it makes sense to go with desktop/server support (although the creative side of coding appeals to me, I suspect that's beyond my basic skills). I'm 26 so I need to get moving towards a career, and IT seems like it's not going anywhere (even if it IS very competitive).

In an ideal world I'd get into a company at the bottom, get training/certs sorted in-house, and progress through there on a more natural timeline, but that's proving quite difficult with just "I mess about with PCs at home" on my CV. Hence my asking about certs. I hope having the A+/N+ might get me into those 1st line jobs.

Am I on the right track or have I missed something? Is there another way?
 
I would recommend getting a cheap server, like the HP Microserver and putting Esxi on it, then you can set up a lab of virtual machines, get some MCITP books and get stuck in.
 
You don't need to do the tests, just find yourself the books and make sure you know the material. Someone would rather employ someone that knows their job than someone who has a certificate but does not realy understand the material. Some of the N+ is not even relevant to today's jobs, you just have to learn that because it gives a theory and an understanding of the subject. It helps you to understand the technical side of the job, you can find the books online or buy them from the shop. But working in IT unfortunately is not just about knowing how to set up a network.

If you have no experience it is unlikely even if you have a certification for network administrator from 70-642 or similar, that someone would employ you just based on that certification. You would probably have to start working within office/corporate environments doing the general support before you get more server side jobs, that would be more inline with technical information that you have studied for.

If you have the money to pay for expensive certification then you might have a chance of getting an entry level job that is specific to that certification. Like a vmware cert or a cisco voice cert for example. But they are not cheap and with no experience they are not easy to get.

Most corporate/office IT support is the same, You have software support, which most of the time, is basically office and other industry specific software. If you learn software fast and then can help someone with it, you should be ok. Then there are printer support, which is a lot of more than your home printer through usb. Usually network printers with some mfd scanning to email. You have a lot of printer jams, you have to do maintence kits etc. Then you have hardware support, often hardware support is not done by software support, depending on the size of the corporation. But hardware support is nothing as usually just exchange the entire pc if something goes wrong. Then there is phone support. Which is not always done by software support, but often is. Depending on the size of the corporation server support is not done by software support, but sometimes basic active directory support is required, which is so simple a non IT person can do it. Basically right click change password, right click create user account. You can learn that from reading online guides.
 
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groen said:
You don't need to do the tests, just find yourself the books and make sure you know the material. Someone would rather employ someone that knows their job than someone who has a certificate but does not realy understand the material.
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Totally disagree.

Yes, you may know more than me just for example but how are you going to get that across to a prospective employer on your interview. By telling him you've done this and you done that?? Anybody can talk the talk. Ive done sales for nearly 8 years and could sell ice to an eskimo. Ask me to maintain a server in a medium size business, i couldnt..Even if i knew theoretically how to do it. By this time next year i will (Believe it or not).

Im not too sure if you have to do practicals on interviews at this level but having a certs like MCITP in Server Administration going into an interview for a server administration job shows straight away your skill set and understanding of what is required and how to implement it all.

EDIT: Your argument does stand though for these companies that offer these types of certs for crazy money with a completion time of 5days. Now that does seem ridiculous indeed but if you've been in the game along time and know what your doing then maybe 5days would be a peace of ****. I dont know. Im in it for the long haul im afraid.
 
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The boot camp style courses are handy for people who have the experience and just want them done and out the way quickly.
 
Well the tests are not going to help you in knowing how to maintain a server any more than just reading the material. If you need the tests to help you learn you can get those for free online. Then just tell the interviewer that you learned the material by reading the books and self study. Hell i even said i had the certs and no interviewer ever asked for proof. They would soon know if you are lying, because generally you have to complete a technical test when going to IT interviews.

I doubt someone with a MCITP in server admin and no experience at all in server admin get a job in server admin. There are loads of people in IT that have certifications and degrees in comp sci that are stuck in jobs supporting office and printers and doing basic sever support. There are exceptions of course, but i am speaking generally.

If you have the money to get certifications then go head, they will only help with your knowledge and speed up your progress in your career.
 
groen said:
Well the tests are not going to help you in knowing how to maintain a server any more than just reading the material. If you need the tests to help you learn you can get those for free online. Then just tell the interviewer that you learned the material by reading the books and self study. Hell i even said i had the certs and no interviewer ever asked for proof. They would soon know if you are lying, because generally you have to complete a technical test when going to IT interviews.

I doubt someone with a MCITP in server admin and no experience at all in server admin get a job in server admin. There are loads of people in IT that have certifications and degrees in comp sci that are stuck in jobs supporting office and printers and doing basic sever support. There are exceptions of course, but i am speaking generally.

If you have the money to get certifications then go head, they will only help with your knowledge and speed up your progress in your career.
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I don't have the money, that's exactly why im going for the option of applying myself to gain credentials in order to get a career in I.T. Yes, im spending money on materials but which could probably be found all over the net but i like to have books handy for when im out in the van at work etc. By all means, i'll not be just doing a few test in hoping to understand whats what for the test. Im looking to use the material to fully understand what is required to be able to fulfill my duties when the time comes. And of course, im definitely not looking to jump straight into a server admin job, not with my lack of experience anyway. Hopefully something along the lines of 1st line technical support for a year or so and who knows from then onwards. I guess its all a matter on how quick one can learn an apply it.
 
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