MCSE Courses

Firefly86

Firefly86

Firefly86

Associate
Joined
19 Jul 2006
Posts
258
Location
Gibraltar
Hi guys,

wasn't sure what section to stick this in but thought this was best.
It's really just some advice I'm looking for. At the moment I've got my MCSA qualification, I've done this by going over to 3 courses in the UK ( I live in GIbraltar so this is a pain in the ass).

I've got 3 more courses to do (and exams) to get my MCSE. The problem being my boss is an ahole...hes insisting that I go over to UK for the next 3 courses, apart from the fact that it's a major pain, and very expensive, I hate travelling, I'm wondering if its really worth the trip when I could self study the official course book here :S

Is it a major advantage actually attending the instructor led course? Perhaps I had bad luck but the last ones I went to were basically reading from the book :S I did the exchange course myself via self study and passed the exam which made me an MCSA. However my boss was really against this and insists I dont do it again.

Any opinions are appreciated :S
 
Why n ot look for a provider that offers instructor lead online courses. You log into a virtual classrom and have an MSN type applet to ask the instructor questions as they go through the lessons. Cant recall who offered this to me last year, but i seem to recall it was a reputable company.
 
from what I heard a lot of the courses are just reading from the book... it all depends on how well you know your stuff, its good to do and understand the lab excerises from the m$ press book. I passed mine by just self study.

The advantages in doing the course is that they have all the equipment setup and ready to use, it saves a lot of time and effort and if you boss is paying for it - why not? You can rely on the trainniers experince to help you out, but from what I been told the trainners can't be certifed themselves apart from being MCT...

Best of luck on the tests...
 
Just buy books and study for them yourself.

Classroom courses are not cheap, do it yourself if you want to pass.

I really dont see why an employer should pay for someone education, if you want to do the job you should pay for your own education.
 
Don't agree with previous poster at all.

The employer is obviously getting something out of you being more qualified. At least the employer pays - it may be better to see if you can do one of the courses where you do all three exams in a week.

I have to learn all the stuff, in my own time, and then pay for the exam at the moment. It's made me resent the employer for not giving me a helping hand as it will be he who is going to advertise me being an MCSA, etc.



M.
 
Another point of view, I been in IT 10 years and 90% of the people I know that have been sent on courses by employers end up leaving when they have passed because they hate the place they are at.

So again, why should someone else pay for your education, its yours. so you pay for it.
 
In order to get my first step into IT, the IS manager from my company said do the MCSE and you'll be in, as although you have experience, you don't have the paper the big bosses want.

When I found out that it would cost me almost 2K and living in England for at least 1 or 2 months I though "Damnit another loan"

It's £88 an exam over here and you have to do 7 to get the MCSE, and my mate who did it before me still has his discs for the tutorial

He said "Most people and you would be included could easily learn the discs and then just do the exam"

I say if you have experience in your modules, go self study, but if you're not confident or have little to no experience then go for the course; It's a gateway to getting a better job, so the gains would balance the loss?
 
Firefly86 said:
Hi guys,


Is it a major advantage actually attending the instructor led course?

Any opinions are appreciated :S
Click to expand...

No.

I've done all MCSEs (instructor led) from NT to 2003, forget the courses, total waste of time imho. Just buy the books and get some sample exams to practice. The only reason I did the courses was my company paid and I got time off work (the real benefit).

Surely there is a test center near you?
 
m4cc45 said:
Don't agree with previous poster at all.

I have to learn all the stuff, in my own time, and then pay for the exam at the moment. It's made me resent the employer for not giving me a helping hand as it will be he who is going to advertise me being an MCSA, etc.

M.
Click to expand...

Tell me about it! the computer job adverts all say we want this or that qualification and they what to pay you peanuts! back in the old days my employer would give us a grand for passes and a small payrise just to say thankyou for spending your time and money, now we get nothing...

We get pimped out left right and centre... they wanted me to support blackberrys without any training; so I told them to give me a payrise as its another skill set they will be using me for and which bit nothing was said further.

The computer job market seems to be at a low at the moment... companys are only willing to give out contracts, and get your foot in the door you need to have them on your cv. I thinking of doing a masters in networking soon; as I really can stand getting certified then re-certified again and again. But a career switch my be in order as it feels I dont enjoy computing any more.
 
Relentless said:
Another point of view, I been in IT 10 years and 90% of the people I know that have been sent on courses by employers end up leaving when they have passed because they hate the place they are at.

So again, why should someone else pay for your education, its yours. so you pay for it.
Click to expand...

Most companies who pay for the MCSA / MCSE would put you on a retainer (i.e. you leave within a year and you have to pay for it). When my old company payed for two exams (no training) they wanted to do this until I told them I would pay for myself.

I am learning, yes, I am doing the study at home for several hours a day then I'm spending all my lunch hour doing it. At the end of the day though its a two way thing. I don't have to do the MCSE to stay in a job, I want to! The company I am working for is getting far more out of me doing this than me not doing it.

******s



M.
 
To be quite truthful, the old 'If we pay for your course you cant leave unless you repay the fees' doesn't hold water. I enquired about this from our lawyers as i put 3 people through MCSE and 14 people through MCDST plus some ITIL and Prince2 training for some who had the need identified over the last 2 years, they said it would never hold up in either an industrial tribunal or court of law as it was not part of the original terms of employment, thus couldn't be enforced on the individual.

At the end of the day, you would hope that most people would have the common decency to stay with a company for at least a year if they were to invest a significant amount of money in their personal and proffesional development. Employers do gain from this type of certification, yes, that is true, we were able to use the fact we had a fully certified team of desktop support personnel with current and prospective clients in the same way we could do with the server guys. In fact the only person we couldnt hang on to was the network guy who we paid for his CCNA as we couldn't even begin to match his wage demands once he got 'jobserve' figures into his head.
 
The company needs to give all the training required for you to do your job, its upto them to decided what the level and type of training thats required, be it 3rd party coursed or internal training.

They need or should to foot the cost for the courses that they say you need to go on for you to do your job correclty. Two of the lads here just gone on an apple re-cert course; its cost the company around 4K for two people for 1 day course. This inc hotel, hire care, food, expenses and the course itself.

If the company says you need this course and not willing to pay for it, I would be tempted (and have done in the past) to say "well you will have to sack me as I'll no longer qualified to do my job! that I been doing for (x) years since you will not give me the training for me to do my job correclty" - this does not work if the training involes a getting promotion as its a new job role.

I would love to see how it end up in an industrial tribunal or court of law. sacked from doing your job as the company wont pay for your training to do it correclty.
 
SGCWill said:
In order to get my first step into IT, the IS manager from my company said do the MCSE and you'll be in, as although you have experience, you don't have the paper the big bosses want.

When I found out that it would cost me almost 2K and living in England for at least 1 or 2 months I though "Damnit another loan"

It's £88 an exam over here and you have to do 7 to get the MCSE, and my mate who did it before me still has his discs for the tutorial

He said "Most people and you would be included could easily learn the discs and then just do the exam"

I say if you have experience in your modules, go self study, but if you're not confident or have little to no experience then go for the course; It's a gateway to getting a better job, so the gains would balance the loss?
Click to expand...

?
Why didn't you just do it in belfast. BIC systems for example (now run by BT)

And 2k? If work want you to do it, make them pay for it
 
ooo lots of replies hehe.

Thanks guys.
Well I am very confident in being able to do the exams myself, hence the reason that I was so pro self study. I also thought that there really wasn't much difference between self study and instructor led courses but it's nice to hear others confirm that.
My bosses argument is that I will learn more in an instructer led course and so he's trying to whisk me off....in my mind I see it as a waste of time..money and it means I'm out of the office for a week (down to 1 IT guy)

I live in Gibraltar so unfortunately there arent any test centres close by, except spain but my spanish is crap...so its really only UK :/

I have even said that I will pay for the books (Amazon) myself if it means I can self study but he is so dead set against it :S

My boss is actually less experienced in IT than I am, and is an MCP. I suspect he is trying to slow down my progress :P as I am almost certain if I were to self study I would have my MCSE before September...this is offtopic i guess lol :P

just general whinging..... nice to get it out haha xD
 
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