[Medieval 2 TW] I always do worse in manual battles than automated ones

[snowdog]

As title, I always do worse than the ai, often having trouble with simple stuff.

How do you guys counter crossbows when you happen to have heavy infantry only?

How do you guys properly use archers, mine are always out of range or just able to fire 1 arrow before being charged @.
I take my archers behind my heavy infantry and then they're useless, if I let them shoot they kill my own guys or aim into the sky hitting nothing.
I can use crossbows effectively but archers are always useless for me, how can I make my longbowmen effective?

Finally: I'd like some hints about how to kill the papal states, I'm nr.1 in military but when declaring war they seem to be sending massive armies of papal guards wich are very hard to kill, I usually lose cities intead of winning, even if I have 5 full stacks of heavy cavalry, cannons, heavy infantry and good archers @ start when declaring war.
This is my situation:

Turn 162, I'm england, with the pope peed off at me and often in war with me when I kindly refuse his demands.
How can I conquer rome and kill the pope?

Any other hints greatly appriciated, what should I do in my campaign, I have no ''targeted'' enemy's except papal states.

 

[Indy500]

As title, I always do worse than the ai, often having trouble with simple stuff.

How do you guys counter crossbows when you happen to have heavy infantry only?

Hide in dense terrain, or flank them quickly from both sides.

How do you guys properly use archers, mine are always out of range or just able to fire 1 arrow before being charged @.
I take my archers behind my heavy infantry and then they're useless, if I let them shoot they kill my own guys or aim into the sky hitting nothing.
I can use crossbows effectively but archers are always useless for me, how can I make my longbowmen effective?

Keep them on the flanks, backed up by cavalry. Fire at the enemy from multiple angles to break up their charge.

Finally: I'd like some hints about how to kill the papal states, I'm nr.1 in military but when declaring war they seem to be sending massive armies of papal guards wich are very hard to kill, I usually lose cities intead of winning

Don't attack the Papal states until you've dealt with everyone else.

 

[snowdog]

Hide in dense terrain, or flank them quickly from both sides.

Will try, but I ended up exhausting my Dismounted knights last time afetr chasing crossbows for 10 mins then the enemy general finished em off in 1 big charge ( wow I've never seen exhaustion being so effective.).

Keep them on the flanks, backed up by cavalry. Fire at the enemy from multiple angles to break up their charge.

OK thanks, will do, feeling so stupid lol, I've never tried archers on flanks.

Don't attack the Papal states until you've dealt with everyone else.

What do you think I should do then in my situation? I'm about to take the HLE's last city, and building the dock building (forgot name) needed for carracks to explore the far west ( just had the message about the world being round), but in the meantime my armies are just standing by doing nothing, what do you think I should do atm I have about 3 full stacks of mixed troops (verterans too) war eager as me.

Papal states are the only people really annoying me, I really just want to finish em off and punish the pope for ordering me around, I mean, if I'd have listened to him France and Spain would still be alive and the HRE would be invading Britain.

 

[Inazuma]

Are you using some kind of advanced AI because it never seems to take advantage over me like that.

I think one of the best pieces of advise I can give is to just be prepared; make sure your armies are fielding a mix of infantry, archers and cavalry at all times. Even better with artillery added.

My archers or gunmen - I put them in front of my infantry to get into range. If the enemy charges at you then you can always pull your archers back behind your infantry.
If you yourself have units being shot upon, put them in loose formation to minimalise causalities. Use cavalry to flank enemies, especially those annoying archers. Also remember even if you do only have heavy infantry to attack crossbows, those crossbows still need to reload and will only be able to get a few shots in before you charge into their line.

Finally, to take care of the papal states spam priests and send them to non-Catholic regions. As they start converting the land, you will gain favour. My own priests have taken most of the cardinal places and have been Popes for many years now. Attack non-Catholics to gain favour too. Once you have a foothold, start preparing an army that can deal with theirs. In fact I myself am just about to take Rome.

 

[jim5000]

'How do you guys counter crossbows when you happen to have heavy infantry only?'

Why would you only have heavy infantry? Unless it is a stack or 2 moving to meet up with one of your armies you should always have a good mic of troops together. Infantry without ranged attack is dead, and vise-versa. You need the both to protect each other.

'Finally: I'd like some hints about how to kill the papal states, I'm nr.1 in military but when declaring war they seem to be sending massive armies of papal guards wich are very hard to kill, I usually lose cities intead of winning, even if I have 5 full stacks of heavy cavalry'

Why would you have 5 stacks of heave cavalry in an army? that is a quatre of your space gone and it is all on horses which are only good for charging, and then only on the flanks of good troops. 2 units of horses will sufice, just just them to gradually pummel the flanks (complete side on charges) of your enemy before the battle starts.

Always try and take the high ground and give your archers a good field of fire as the enemy approach you. A good solid centre to your line will hold the initial enemy charges, and a couple of groups of spearmen or swordmen in reserve can plug and holes that appear or support the flanks if needed. Keep you cavelry mobile, they are dead if they stand still, and harry any fleeing troops or unguarded archers with them.

The main brunt of the battle comes down to numbers and strenght of your core battleline units, if you are outnumbered or completly overpowered it can be extremely difficult to win, however if you are defending a hilly area and can utilise your archers well you can swing the favour of battle your way.

Defending towns is simply a matter or having enough men to keep them from the walls and enough archers to prevent their battering rams getting through the gate....

 

[snowdog]

Why would you have 5 stacks of heave cavalry in an army?

I don't re-read my post, I'm saying I've got 5 stacks with a mix of heavy cav, heavy inf, archers and cannons...

Are you using some kind of advanced AI because it never seems to take advantage over me like that.

Nope v1.0 medium ( or hard, can't renember) ai.

Defending towns is simply a matter or having enough men to keep them from the walls and enough archers to prevent their battering rams getting through the gate....

What if it's a city and it's cut off from your territory, under siege of 2 papal states full stacks, and filled with only a full stack of spear militia and 1 or 2 archer groups?
( and in that situation, it was a counter-attack, I still hadn't repaired the walls, and to make it even worse, even if I had walls they were open coz of spies.).

Infact I've lost 700 units I think or more while just killed 100
The papal guards slaughtered my spears with no problems.

Why would you only have heavy infantry?

See my original question, all archers for me are always worthless, in battles wich I lose I only kill 2 or 3 guys with my archers while losing 80 of them. I just stopped putting archers in ''halfstacks'' wich are supposed to deal with medium attacking stacks in the field, will retry using em.


About crossbows: but it's hard to kill crossbows because they keep running when I come too close
, anything but cavalary is useless against them when I play. But the enemy always seems to keep his general and spears protecting them.

My archers or gunmen - I put them in front of my infantry to get into range. If the enemy charges at you then you can always pull your archers back behind your infantry.

I do that, but it's useless, they kill 2 or 3 onstroming enemy's, then they have to get back and do nothing, the enemy always in my case seems to charge when they are in my archers range, limiting the time they are in effective range for just 1 shot.

The main brunt of the battle comes down to numbers and strenght of your core battleline units, if you are outnumbered or completly overpowered it can be extremely difficult to win, however if you are defending a hilly area and can utilise your archers well you can swing the favour of battle your way.

I lose ''even'' battles always though, also I often seem to end up in a damn valley with the enemy on a hill, the terrain is always in the ai's advantage of the battles I've played recently ( most of the campaign on the map was actually all auto battle done, I've only played a few battles myself)
Hell I even lose battles where I outnumber the enemy.


Papal guards are the main pain, I lose one on one battles with them even if I outflank em, I mean, I've had this battle once, I had 1 full group of armoured swordsmen and one group of dismounted knights, I ligned up the swordsmen from the side, while letting the dismounted knights face the papal guards, yet when both groups engaged the papals, the papals managed to reduce my dismounted knights group to just 3 soldiers, before routing themselves .

 

[SiriusB]

You have asked so many questions I have lost track, but I shall just share all the stuff I learned while playing.

Archers, as you know, are extremely weak in melee combat and quickly run away. The enemy charging your archers makes sense. When I play I charge their archers!

You need to use the "correct" type of unit against other types. What unit is best against another unit can be found within the game if memory serves. There are also a million tutorials and FAQs on 'tinterweb too.

Don't make your infantry run around too much - tired men don't do so well in combat.

If you get a chance to deploy your army before the battle starts, move several cavalry units as far to the sides of the map as you can and as far ahead as you can. These cavalry should be moved around behind the enemy army. Once behind the enemy, line them up and then charge into the rear. If done well you can route large portions of the enemy troops. Once you have done the charge, quickly withdraw the cavalry, line em up, and send em again. Don't charge head-on if you can help it. If you get lucky you may end up taking out the enemy general. This wont win the battle but makes it far more likely for enemy units to route.

While your cavalry is attacking the flanks and rear, charge some expendable infantry into the front of the enemy army. This *should* distract them from your cavalry.

Use cavalry units [those not charging the rear of the enemy] to sort out archers and artillery. Remember to make sure to withdraw them as soon as the charge is over.

If at all possible hide strong units and cavalry in trees and only bring them out of hiding when they can do maximum damage - for example when the enemy army is going by. Surprise attacks to the flanks and rear will cause lots of devastation.

When defending a castle put lots of archers on the walls and have them all aim for siege equipment - make sure their arrows are lit.

If you are feeling brave [or as a desparate act] you could send out a cavalry charge to wreck the enemy's siege equipment before it gets near your walls. Bear in mind this is rather costly in terms of units, even if it is successful.

Be ready to quickly move men off the walls to the gate in case they open.

Do not take over a region unless you are fully capable of defending it. Waste of time otherwise.

As for what to do in your current situation. As said, get chummy with the Pope again. Meanwhile, go and attack the Moors going through Africa and then see if you can sort out the Holy Land. If you do well you could surround the Papal States from two sides.

 

[snowdog]

Do not take over a region unless you are fully capable of defending it. Waste of time otherwise.

Are you sure? Is it not worth the loot? I mean I prefer to have a brighter economy for 2 turns and a 20k loot from plundering the city reather than keeping the military, wich in some cases are just militia capturing stuff oppertunistic.

As for the rest of what you said, will try to apply it all.

 

[SiriusB]

Well, if all you're gonna do is loot it, it's not the same as taking over. I meant if you plan to expand then you should make sure you can keep hold of it. No point sending a few units to defend a place and hoping for the best.

 

[yantorsen]

I find with archers (esp. if you're english) the longbowmen (esp sherwood archers) tend be have good attack anyway, so i just turn off skirmish mode and let them hold there ground until backup arrives. A group of sherwood archers could equal most infantry.

above is fine for defending really but when attacking i tend to send in all/most of my archers in a big long line and keep firing until the enemy charge them and then have some defensive infantry just bhind to take there place when they retreat.