Medium format arrives with the Pentax 645D

The_Abyss · 21 Sep 2010 at 21:53

http://www.trustedreviews.com/digital-cameras/news/2010/09/21/Pentax-645D-hands-on-at-Photokina/p1

I didn't see this posted elsewhere, so thought I'd drop a note.

Massive price tag, but the few specs that have been released are nevertheless quite impressive.

Adrianr · 21 Sep 2010 at 22:07

Not entirely sure what to make of that.. I'm going to guess it'll end up falling to hobbyists and posers. The industry this appeals to is nearly all tied up with 5DMKII's and 'Blad/Phase, so I'm not entirely sure who they're after with it. Nice camera though

bigredshark · 21 Sep 2010 at 22:19

I don't know - for landscapes in particular I bet IQ is better than a 5DII and it's half the price of a 'Blad setup - I think it has a place certainly...

Amp34 · 22 Sep 2010 at 00:01

Not sure I'd class it as medium format though, considering it's half the size of the smaller 6x4.5 films and much smaller than a 6x7cm more standard film.

It's like m4/3 to a full frame DSLR.

Still, sure the Dof (lack of) and IQ should be better than something like the 5D2

Adrianr · 22 Sep 2010 at 00:09

bigredshark said:
I don't know - for landscapes in particular I bet IQ is better than a 5DII and it's half the price of a 'Blad setup - I think it has a place certainly...

I'm never sure to what anyone is referring to when they say half the price of a "Blad setup". There are numerous digital medium format systems that have been on sale and super seeded for a fair while now. It wasn't too long ago Hasselblad UK were doing their H3DII system with a 39mp back and 80mm lens for £13k or thereabouts, and offering a buy-back upgrade to the H4D when it was released. That's not even considering Phase or Leaf.

The IQ will be better than the 5D2 without a shadow of a doubt. But I think those landscape people who can quantify the increase will likely be hooking a proper MF back upto a Sinar etc, or be hobbyists will very deep pockets just after a shiny expensive toy. It's kinda reminding me of the Leica S2 (Though granted this is far more likely to muscle into the territory the Leica was after purely because it's half the price).

Then again I could be completely wrong. Come this time next year every rental shop in London will have these flying about to shoots and I'll have to learn another bloody camera system. I'd certainly drop my 5D2 for one in a heartbeat if it didn't cost me anything!

D.P. · 22 Sep 2010 at 08:26

I think it is also the start of a new trend in cheaper MF digital cameras. There were strong rumors a while ago that Nikon had plans to release MF gear, even some patents surfaced. Turned out that it was probably the D3X which offers IQ closer to MF systems than the competition. But there were still a lot of people believing that Nikon will enter the market.

And £9K is the RRP, the actually street and especially on-line price will be less. And prices will drop significantly within a year. With time it will knock on the D3/1Ds|II door.

denyerec · 22 Sep 2010 at 12:11

It's 40MP and 14 bit, MF sensor, and there are comparisons to the 5D and D3 ?
*mind boggles*

The SnR on this is going to be vastly superior to the smaller sensor'd SLRs, yielding 14 bits of usable data (instead of 10 or 11 with an extra side of noise), supplying vastly more dynamic range and at the end of the day, dynamic range is king.

robmiller · 22 Sep 2010 at 13:45

denyerec said:
It's 40MP and 14 bit, MF sensor, and there are comparisons to the 5D and D3 ?
*mind boggles*

The SnR on this is going to be vastly superior to the smaller sensor'd SLRs, yielding 14 bits of usable data (instead of 10 or 11 with an extra side of noise), supplying vastly more dynamic range and at the end of the day, dynamic range is king.

It's being compared to the 5Dii and the D3x because that's the market it's targeting, no? It's not like people are expecting Hasselblad users to downgrade to this, it's pretty explicitly aimed at the people for whom a D3x just isn't quite enough but for whom a Hasselblad is prohibitively expensive.

Adrianr · 22 Sep 2010 at 13:58

denyerec said:
It's 40MP and 14 bit, MF sensor, and there are comparisons to the 5D and D3 ?
*mind boggles*

The SnR on this is going to be vastly superior to the smaller sensor'd SLRs, yielding 14 bits of usable data (instead of 10 or 11 with an extra side of noise), supplying vastly more dynamic range and at the end of the day, dynamic range is king.

Yes, because believe it or not the 5DMKII is one of the cameras standing in the way of this becoming a real hit. It's SO cheap for the quality seemingly every man and his dog not renting Phase gear has one. And the quality of the D3X is MUCH closer to higher resolution 14bit MF than the specs would have you believe. Especially under controlled conditions.

It's really not as simple as DSLR = No where near. There are HUGE amounts of pro portrait/fashion/advertising photographers using the 5DMKII because they're finding, quite simply, they don't need anything more for the price. You can have two backup bodies before you're even near the price of the cheaper MF gear, and that's before you consider the added versatility and speed.

In the real world the price is king. And the 5D2 undercuts everything without competition for literally thousands of pounds. It doesn't provide the best IQ, but it many cases provides enough, that's the difference.

Johnny|lucidcomposure · 22 Sep 2010 at 14:05

robmiller said:
It's being compared to the 5Dii and the D3x because that's the market it's targeting, no? It's not like people are expecting Hasselblad users to downgrade to this, it's pretty explicitly aimed at the people for whom a D3x just isn't quite enough but for whom a Hasselblad is prohibitively expensive.

And after you post this Blad release a budget version now.

denyerec · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:15

Hmm, I guess you're right with the "close enough is good enough" mantra that seems to pervade everything these days. For example my 6MP fuji is good enough for everything I do right now (Weddings, fun photography, product photography)

Here's a good example of where MF eclipses 35mm though: http://kenrockwell.com/mamiya/dm33/tone.htm

Fairly straightforward example.

However as everyone is so keen to point out, it comes down to whether or not it's good enough for what you want to do with it. For most people who upload to flickr and print at A4-A3, the D3/5D2 are more than ample (Except when it comes to dynamic range, where they both suck compared to my antiquated S5), for people who demand more, there's medium format. I don't think Pentax intend to poach 5d/D3 users, I think they intend to poach users who want to jump to MF but couldn't afford other solutions.

The new "Budget" Hassleblad (Is anything Blad really budget?

) put more competitors in the same pool, which should be very interesting.

Mud · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:26

denyerec said:
For example my 6MP fuji is good enough for everything I do right now (Weddings, fun photography, product photography)

Off-topic, do you find you have to purposefully overexpose with your (assumedly) S5 to use the full dynamic range, then pull it back in RAW? I assume you've got to exercise those additional smaller photosites to get the additional dynamic range. I've recently got a UVIR Pro1 (i.e., an S5 without the hot-mirror) and am not sure if I should be trusting the internal meter. Of course I'm complicating things as I'm not sure how the meter is reacting to near-IR :confused: