Microsoft have finally learned (improved updates)

glenimp617 · 16 Aug 2016 at 14:52

https://www.neowin.net/news/microso...o-monthly-cumulative-updates-windows-10-style

Finally!!!! although it will anger some of our forum members, I'm incredibly pleased something I have been banging on about for literally years has finally seen the light of day. I do think it's a little too late as Windows 7 and 8 are in their twilight years but at least we have seen the back of the continual drip feeding of updates.

I'm looking forward to getting my teeth into SCCM 2016 and think these new updates will make admin tasks much easier for my team.

Angilion · 16 Aug 2016 at 18:57

Easier for people who don't care what is being installed on their computers, sure.

Personally, I like to know and choose what's being installed on my computer. That's one reason why I have avoided Windows 10. I'm not surprised that Microsoft is removing choice, since they have moved away from being a software company and towards being a spyware/advertising company. Users being informed and able to choose is obviously bad for their new business model. Removing security patches from Windows Update is a great way to ensure that almost all users of older versions of Windows are as spied on and controlled as users of Windows 10 - since they don't get a choice of which "patches" to install, the spyware and rootkit can be installed on them with the actual patches.

In what way is this an improvement? Even if you don't care about spyware and don't care whether or not you control what's installed on your computers, in what way is it an improvement over the current system?

Buffalo2102 · 17 Aug 2016 at 00:00

Angilion said:
Easier for people who don't care what is being installed on their computers, sure.

Personally, I like to know and choose what's being installed on my computer. That's one reason why I have avoided Windows 10. I'm not surprised that Microsoft is removing choice, since they have moved away from being a software company and towards being a spyware/advertising company. Users being informed and able to choose is obviously bad for their new business model. Removing security patches from Windows Update is a great way to ensure that almost all users of older versions of Windows are as spied on and controlled as users of Windows 10 - since they don't get a choice of which "patches" to install, the spyware and rootkit can be installed on them with the actual patches.

In what way is this an improvement? Even if you don't care about spyware and don't care whether or not you control what's installed on your computers, in what way is it an improvement over the current system?

Amen. Not content with releasing a new OS that I don't want, and forcing me to jump through hoops just to avoid the bloody thing, they now want to screw up the OS I already have and am happy with.

Angilion · 17 Aug 2016 at 01:35

Buffalo2102 said:
Amen. Not content with releasing a new OS that I don't want, and forcing me to jump through hoops just to avoid the bloody thing, they now want to screw up the OS I already have and am happy with.

The most annoying thing is that it isn't the OS. Win 10 itself would be fine. I'd buy it. I'd even pay a recurring licence fee for it, if it was small enough. It's what they've added to it that's the problem, giving them full access and control over all PCs running it and routinely spying on all users of it. Rootkit and spyware. The fact that they repeatedly break people's installations (e.g. replacing a driver with a different one or simply uninstalling the driver and leaving the device useless) gets more attention but it's a symptom of the underlying problem.

If I'd known they were going to do this, I probably wouldn't have bought a new PC for gaming. I thought I had 3 more years of a malware-free OS I could game on. Now I find I have only 6 weeks.

Plan B is a Windows PC solely as a games console and a cheap laptop running Linux to use as a PC while hoping that Microsoft don't break my Windows installation too often or delete my saved games by mistake or suchlike.

bledd · 17 Aug 2016 at 05:20

They really need to release SP2 for W7 for this to work well. Currently there's a mountain of updates to install.

Buffalo2102 · 17 Aug 2016 at 07:44

Angilion said:
The most annoying thing is that it isn't the OS. Win 10 itself would be fine. I'd buy it. I'd even pay a recurring licence fee for it, if it was small enough. It's what they've added to it that's the problem, giving them full access and control over all PCs running it and routinely spying on all users of it. Rootkit and spyware. The fact that they repeatedly break people's installations (e.g. replacing a driver with a different one or simply uninstalling the driver and leaving the device useless) gets more attention but it's a symptom of the underlying problem.

If I'd known they were going to do this, I probably wouldn't have bought a new PC for gaming. I thought I had 3 more years of a malware-free OS I could game on. Now I find I have only 6 weeks.

Plan B is a Windows PC solely as a games console and a cheap laptop running Linux to use as a PC while hoping that Microsoft don't break my Windows installation too often or delete my saved games by mistake or suchlike.

Again, I agree. I've tried Windows 10 - I actually still have a NUC running it now, although I barely use it. On the face of it, it's a nice OS but all of the under-the-hood stuff, the apps, the forced updates etc.. are just not for me so I made a choice that I don't want it. Fair enough I thought.

I already use Linux quite a lot so I'm comfortable moving over to that for the most part. I will likely maintain a legacy Windows OS just for gaming though, as you suggest.

jpaul · 17 Aug 2016 at 11:33

Non enterprise users will be able to pick up the cumulative security only (so no telemtry/spyware) monthly roll-ups from MS catalog, so does not seem so bad.

bledd there was already an, all but name win7 sp2, a patch roll-up (no telemetry either) that took everything up to June this year from sp1 ( documented in win 7 update thread ) so a stress free clean install is not hard.

pastymuncher · 17 Aug 2016 at 13:36

Oh great, so we can no longer pick what we want to install on our pc's. No doubt the telemetry updates that I have blocked previously will now be installed with me having no choice in the matter.

Angilion · 17 Aug 2016 at 17:06

jpaul said:
Non enterprise users will be able to pick up the cumulative security only (so no telemtry/spyware) monthly roll-ups from MS catalog, so does not seem so bad.

Maybe, maybe not:

1) It isn't currently possible to do that. It might or might not be possible to do so at some point in the future, maybe. Since allowing users a choice goes against Microsoft's core spyware/adware business, why would MS allow anyone to make that choice?

2) If MS does allow anyone to have that choice, there's no reason to think they will continue to do so for very long. A piecemeal approach is often an effective way to silence dissent and MS has been widely criticised for how heavy-handed it has been in removing users' choices and imposing malware on them. They've even lost a court case over it. It would be prudent for them to allow a temporary fallback position that's much less convenient to use and will be used by only a few people, so they can point to it and say that users still have a choice...and then remove that choice a few months later.

3) There's nothing stopping MS labelling their malware as a security patch and bundling it with the actual security patches.

jpaul · 17 Aug 2016 at 22:11

1. Am I abusing the terminology MS catalog ?
I meant use the catalog eg here for documentation, but can then get the MS download link from google eg

2. yes maybe you are right, plausible deniability.

3. Remaining Enterprise users would be annoyed

[ I liked this list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters#U.S.
"the U.S. Army is “the” single largest install base for Red Hat Linux"[30] and the US Navy nuclear submarine fleet runs on Linux,[31]
]

Angilion · 18 Aug 2016 at 06:54

Hmm...the quote button didn't quote anything. I've been getting that recently, but only on some posts. No idea why.

The last time I looked, the MS update catalogue still required an old version of IE (to support the required ActiveX control). Apparently MS are intending to change that. Probably. Maybe.

Trying to access the link you provided using Firefox triggers the security settings and blocks access because the site is incorrectly configured and is not secure.

As for using the update catalog to get documentation and then downloading the security patch from the download centre...what makes you think it will be on the download centre?

Annoying customers doesn't seem to be something Microsoft cares about very much and certainly nowhere near as much as it cares about increasing its control over and surveillance of as many PCs as possible, so I wouldn't care to rely on them deciding to not put the software for that into the security patches because it would annoy some customers. Not even large customers.

|Thomas| · 18 Aug 2016 at 08:59

Angilion said:
Annoying customers doesn't seem to be something Microsoft cares about very much and certainly nowhere near as much as it cares about increasing its control over and surveillance of as many PCs as possible, so I wouldn't care to rely on them deciding to not put the software for that into the security patches because it would annoy some customers. Not even large customers.

I think you're confusing your own annoyances with that of the vast majority of Microsoft's consumers. The huge success of Android and Chrome have demonstrated how little the 'average person' values their privacy. If it truly annoyed people then more and more people would be using Linux.

Stoner81 · 18 Aug 2016 at 13:53

bledd said:
They really need to release SP2 for W7 for this to work well. Currently there's a mountain of updates to install.

Yeah they really do and this is why I made my own ISO with most of the updates already in it, though it does take a while to scan for updates afterwards but generally there is only 20-30 updates missing which is a lot better than 200+

Stoner81.

Angilion · 18 Aug 2016 at 20:35

|Thomas| said:
I think you're confusing your own annoyances with that of the vast majority of Microsoft's consumers. The huge success of Android and Chrome have demonstrated how little the 'average person' values their privacy. If it truly annoyed people then more and more people would be using Linux.

I think the bug with quoting has caused you to miss the context (it was about enterprise customers, which I am not) but in any case your counter has little relevance. I never said that the vast majority of Microsoft's consumers are annoyed at losing control of their own PCs and losing their privacy. If that was the case, Microsoft would probably have to care about annoying customers. Instead, Microsoft can do what they like (even to the extent of repeatedly breaking people's installations of Windows) and still not have to care because they know that nearly all the people they're farming for information will put up with it.

The dominant view on privacy in this country has completely changed in the last decade or so, from being considered a good thing that should be the default to being considered a bad thing that's evidence of wrongdoing. It's a quite remarkable change that has gone largely unnoticed. Less than 20 years ago, standard advice for using the net was to obscure your real identity as much as possible. Now standard advice is to publish as much of your real life as possible for the benefit of companies that collate and analyse that information so they can sell it.

Linux is unlikely to succeed for home use anyway because most games require Windows. People could use a games console or PC running Windows for games and a computer running Linux for a PC (which is what I'm going to do), but I'd be very surprised if that is ever more than a tiny fragment of the market because the dominant view on privacy has changed so much.

bledd · 18 Aug 2016 at 23:08

Stoner81 said:
Yeah they really do and this is why I made my own ISO with most of the updates already in it, though it does take a while to scan for updates afterwards but generally there is only 20-30 updates missing which is a lot better than 200+

Stoner81.

Having an official vanilla starting base for businesses is vital though, otherwise any small issue and you would be second guessing and questioning the validity of your installer :/

Stoner81 · 19 Aug 2016 at 13:33

bledd said:
Having an official vanilla starting base for businesses is vital though, otherwise any small issue and you would be second guessing and questioning the validity of your installer :/

Fair enough I guess but never had a single problem thus far

and that's with using it work too!

Stoner81.

jpaul · 19 Aug 2016 at 18:35

Further on would Enterprise customers be annoyed if telemetry was slipped in
seems of their 93B$ revenue , 15 is OS (24 office)
of which 4 volume / 4 oem non-pro / 7 oem pro (slide5)
so volume folks have less voice than I thought (maybe many businesses are not volume though)
but moreover s9 shows equal revenue for eom non-pro's from the telemetry and search (the sirens voice of cortana)

you may like this too, the graphic is great no ?

need to find someone to print it on a T shirt (with something equally derisory about google on other side)

Rroff · 19 Aug 2016 at 22:06

Telemetry has some quite serious implications in the business side - there are a good few companies that work to contracts where something like that isn't acceptable for various reasons.