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Might Have Made a Bad Choice... Bottleneck...
- Thread starter AndyT
- Start date
Hey there,
Before you throw the 2500k away try doing some tests again in BF1 with your CPU at stock. The frame rate will be lower and you'll still probably get dips in frame rate, but check to see whether you still get the stutter. Stutter can sometimes come about because the game doesn't like your CPU's overclock. Just because the overclock passes stress testing, it doesn't necessarily mean its stable in games- some game engines can be fussy! If there isn't any stutter, then you may need to tune your overclock a little bit more.
If you still get stutter, then yes the 2500k is probably the culprit. Then it would be worth upgrading the CPU first.
Just watched the video above. It's true that older generations of the i5 and i7 still perform very well in a lot of games - especially when overclocked. The sandy bridge CPU's can get pretty close to the frame rate of modern CPU's. But this video is dated and it doesn't tell the full picture. Frame rates don't tell the whole story. Frame time stutter and frame drops get lost in the benchmarks. Newer games are starting to use more threads which puts a lot of pressure on just 4 cores. I get stutter on my i5 playing GTA 5 even though I have a very good frame rate.
Give this a watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RMbYe4X2LI
Yes, it covers Ryzen too (you can skip the first 4mins), but more importantly Rich talks about the problems of the aging i5- especially shown in Crysis 3 - Big frame drops are shown as well as frame time stutter. This does seem to be a developing trend for the current i5 going forward.
In terms of your upgrade path, upgrading both the CPU and GPU will bring you decent FPS gains. If you decide you want to upgrade the CPU I'd look at going for a Ryzen 5 1600 or the i5 8600K when it comes out in the next month or so.
That doesn't mean a new graphics card will be totally wasted though - it will still boost your average FPS and your max FPS. The CPU mainly affects the minimum FPS and the frame times in your games (where you might be getting the stutter).
If I was you, I'd probably return the GTX 1070 and hang on to the 7970 until Nvidia releases Volta around March 2018 and upgrade the CPU this year instead.
Before you throw the 2500k away try doing some tests again in BF1 with your CPU at stock. The frame rate will be lower and you'll still probably get dips in frame rate, but check to see whether you still get the stutter. Stutter can sometimes come about because the game doesn't like your CPU's overclock. Just because the overclock passes stress testing, it doesn't necessarily mean its stable in games- some game engines can be fussy! If there isn't any stutter, then you may need to tune your overclock a little bit more.
If you still get stutter, then yes the 2500k is probably the culprit. Then it would be worth upgrading the CPU first.
Just watched the video above. It's true that older generations of the i5 and i7 still perform very well in a lot of games - especially when overclocked. The sandy bridge CPU's can get pretty close to the frame rate of modern CPU's. But this video is dated and it doesn't tell the full picture. Frame rates don't tell the whole story. Frame time stutter and frame drops get lost in the benchmarks. Newer games are starting to use more threads which puts a lot of pressure on just 4 cores. I get stutter on my i5 playing GTA 5 even though I have a very good frame rate.
Give this a watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RMbYe4X2LI
Yes, it covers Ryzen too (you can skip the first 4mins), but more importantly Rich talks about the problems of the aging i5- especially shown in Crysis 3 - Big frame drops are shown as well as frame time stutter. This does seem to be a developing trend for the current i5 going forward.
In terms of your upgrade path, upgrading both the CPU and GPU will bring you decent FPS gains. If you decide you want to upgrade the CPU I'd look at going for a Ryzen 5 1600 or the i5 8600K when it comes out in the next month or so.
That doesn't mean a new graphics card will be totally wasted though - it will still boost your average FPS and your max FPS. The CPU mainly affects the minimum FPS and the frame times in your games (where you might be getting the stutter).
If I was you, I'd probably return the GTX 1070 and hang on to the 7970 until Nvidia releases Volta around March 2018 and upgrade the CPU this year instead.
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It most definitely is a cpu bottleneck in bf1. Even with my regular 980 and my 2500k at 4.8 the cpu is at 100% usage while gpu usage is all over the place. The only way to get it semi-smooth is to lock framerate to 60 so im not pushing the cpu as much, but its still 90-100% usage and has some big drops. (good thing I dont play it anymore, i've gone back to bf4 
)
most games the 2500k is fine but with high end gpus (higher than 1060~ power) and uncapped framerate you'll see cpu bottlenecking and not using the full power of the 1070 in a lot of games. Some other games to test are Prey (ran at 100~ fps for me but with 100% cpu usage and severe stutter/drops, had to limit fps to 75 and DSR from 1440 to 1080 to stop stutter/cpu bottlenecking) and deus ex mankind divided (100% cpu usage in prague). As said above aswell Crysis 3 will hammer any i5s on the grass levels. Rise of the tomb raider also battered my 2500k with regular drops and not using the gpu fully.
If I had higher than my 980 I would be upgrading the cpu immediately (2600k can be had for fairly cheap when factoring in selling the 2500k, but thats more of a stopgap), if im not getting the full power of my 980 in certain titles you are probably getting way less out of your 1070 than what it is capable of. Personally i'm waiting for zen2+volta/navi to do a full new build
)most games the 2500k is fine but with high end gpus (higher than 1060~ power) and uncapped framerate you'll see cpu bottlenecking and not using the full power of the 1070 in a lot of games. Some other games to test are Prey (ran at 100~ fps for me but with 100% cpu usage and severe stutter/drops, had to limit fps to 75 and DSR from 1440 to 1080 to stop stutter/cpu bottlenecking) and deus ex mankind divided (100% cpu usage in prague). As said above aswell Crysis 3 will hammer any i5s on the grass levels. Rise of the tomb raider also battered my 2500k with regular drops and not using the gpu fully.
If I had higher than my 980 I would be upgrading the cpu immediately (2600k can be had for fairly cheap when factoring in selling the 2500k, but thats more of a stopgap), if im not getting the full power of my 980 in certain titles you are probably getting way less out of your 1070 than what it is capable of. Personally i'm waiting for zen2+volta/navi to do a full new build
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I have a 3570K with a 980Ti. BF1 can turn into a complete mess at times, especially in 64 player maps. The CPU is pegged at 100% while the GPU sits between 70% - 90% with some big fps drops.
I did find that installing the creators update for Windows 10 helped, and making sure that nothing unnecessary is ruining in the background, bar Discord and Origin.
I have just gone down the more radical route and gone for an upgrade to a 1700 (It arrives Monday). I think it is a rather good price, especially given the price of the individual components. I would grab it quick.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/8pac...bundle-amd-1700-3.90ghz-bu-00f-8p.html#t=a3b1
From Hardware Unboxed, when paired with fast RAM and overclocked it performs very well in BF1.
I did find that installing the creators update for Windows 10 helped, and making sure that nothing unnecessary is ruining in the background, bar Discord and Origin.
I have just gone down the more radical route and gone for an upgrade to a 1700 (It arrives Monday). I think it is a rather good price, especially given the price of the individual components. I would grab it quick.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/8pac...bundle-amd-1700-3.90ghz-bu-00f-8p.html#t=a3b1
From Hardware Unboxed, when paired with fast RAM and overclocked it performs very well in BF1.
Do this, go into Nvidia control panel -> manage 3d settings -> program settings -> select bf1 -> power management mode -> prefer maximum performance.
I was getting terrible performance on an i7 6700k and a gtx 980. Did that and now it's as smooth as butter.
I was getting terrible performance on an i7 6700k and a gtx 980. Did that and now it's as smooth as butter.
Associate
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He has an AMD card at the moment, Andrei.
BF1 is notorious for not liking overclocks. Sometimes you boost perf in that game and sometimes it stutters. If it stutters your overclock is not as stable as you might think. It might pass P95 but BF1 is an even tougher test, hilariously.
2500K is a dinosaur now and even a 7600K (current i5) would chug in some modern games. 4c4t is not enough any more. You really want a minimum of 4c8t to get good gaming perf, especially if you have a high end GPU (1070/80/80Ti).
To improve performance with minimum financial damage I would look into a used 3770K (update your bios first to latest) and overclock the snot out of the thing.
You would be better off though waiting for coffee lake 6 core i7 and buying a whole new machine based on it, which may be financially prohibitive.
BF1 is notorious for not liking overclocks. Sometimes you boost perf in that game and sometimes it stutters. If it stutters your overclock is not as stable as you might think. It might pass P95 but BF1 is an even tougher test, hilariously.
2500K is a dinosaur now and even a 7600K (current i5) would chug in some modern games. 4c4t is not enough any more. You really want a minimum of 4c8t to get good gaming perf, especially if you have a high end GPU (1070/80/80Ti).
To improve performance with minimum financial damage I would look into a used 3770K (update your bios first to latest) and overclock the snot out of the thing.
You would be better off though waiting for coffee lake 6 core i7 and buying a whole new machine based on it, which may be financially prohibitive.
3770ks seems to be going for £180. Might aswell get a r5 1600 at that point.
2600k going for about £100-120 but whos knows how long that'll last, given they are already 6 years old
z68 and 2500k seems to be selling for a good bit of money still, id look into the coffelake i7/i5 when they release and how they compare to the r7 1700
2600k going for about £100-120 but whos knows how long that'll last, given they are already 6 years old
z68 and 2500k seems to be selling for a good bit of money still, id look into the coffelake i7/i5 when they release and how they compare to the r7 1700
So I have a 2500k @ 5Ghz and a 1070. More often than not the 2500k bottlenecks the 1070 but it was probably still worth the investment.
Previously I had a 670 and the framerate increase from the upgrade in most games was significant. However there are a few badly optimised games which really want more than my 2500k has to offer. Arma and Pubattlegrounds being good examples. In Battlegrounds my CPU is sitting at or close to 100% load at all times causing a low average framerate and horrible, constant stuttering. Meanwhile my 1070 will often be idling around 40% load. It is a bad experience.
Most of the time however the bottlenecking isn't that big of an issue and the 1070 gets to stretch its legs. In BF1 (Ultra) despite the 2500k again being pinned near 100% load the 1070 also tends to have fairly high usage, and the framerate tends to be pretty high with minimal stuttering. While frostbite is an especially well optimised engine, that experience is fairly representative. In most games yes my framerates could be higher and there may be some minor stuttering but for the most part the gaming experience is good, but probably not esports competitive good.
Still I likely will be upgrading my CPU soon - probably to an 8700k. I expect upcoming games to only be more demanding of my CPU and my lack of threads will likely become a more serious problem. Also, I would quite like better performance in PuBattlegrounds.
Overall grabbing a 1070 isn't a bad shout - especially as it looks like there won't be anything better than Pascal out for quite a long time. But the 2500k is nearing the end of its life too and you may also want to upgrade to Ryzen / Coffeelake / Icelake / Whatever in the near future also. Ultimately it depends what kinds of games you play. If you really want to play Battlegrounds / Arma / other CPU intensive games your money would probably be better spent on a faster CPU / RAM. For everything else it will probably be able to keep going for a little longer.
That PS4 will not give as good performance, I kinda disagree with having us over a barrel, if you want to get CPU/Mobo/RAM for under £400 buy a R5 1600 (£170) a half decent motherboard B350 (£80) and 2x8GB of RAM (£120), it'll come in under budget and you get higher IPC with 6c/12t, it'll smash our 2500k/3570k rigs any day of the week in everything, the reason I've held out is because I like the idea of coffee lake.
Soldato
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This is the crazy part, over clocked my machine everything benchmark wise worked fine. Played BF1 and each time it bombs to desktop within an hour. Dropped settings back a little and now stable in BF1 for hours.
I now use BF1 as a final test that any changes are stable as it really doesn't like any kind of instability
