MIMIO or high gain attennas OR repeaters?

Lex · 18 Jul 2006 at 12:15

which method do you think is the best for use across a long range?

- a standard Netgear dg834g wireless netgear router with high gain anntennas up to 150ft more?
- a MIMO Netgear DG834N modem router?
- a dg34g router with an access point and a further repeater

would you say the MIMO is the more logical purchase to get the furthest range at quality signal strength?

Lex · 18 Jul 2006 at 14:18

what no one knows?

i want to go for the MIMO option but my colleage wants the repeater option.

FrenchTart · 18 Jul 2006 at 14:33

Have you seen my post about my recent long-range wifi testing?

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17601109

What kind of range do you want and across what kind of terrain?

bitslice · 18 Jul 2006 at 14:35

I knew this was a Lex post before I read the name
...it's the total lack of useful detail....

anyway, I thought you put all those wireless jobbies in the bin and bought some fibre (wireless is a dumb idea unless you live in Venice....)

1. a router shouldn't need an anntenna with gain to reach 50m,
a Cisco 340 will do about 90m in free air.
The dB gain of the anntenna needs to be calculated, you shouldn't just bung on any old bit of wire

2. MIMO are good indoors...are we indoors, 'tis a mystery ?

3. will you stop it with the stupid repeater idea...

now tell us whether "long range" means in a field, or through a concrete bunker....

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bitslice · 18 Jul 2006 at 14:49

... just seen 50m of fibre auctioned off for a quid
so add two of those Dlink fibre adapters I mentioned last time (2 x £40 ?)

get a tall bloke to drill some holes, chuck it in the roof void, string it across a gap on a bit of steel wire.

take about a day tops... job done, never have to look at it again ever.

sorry, but we've been through all this before, and we've had no response as to why you won't put fibre in...
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Lex · 18 Jul 2006 at 15:35

bitslice said:
I knew this was a Lex post before I read the name
...it's the total lack of useful detail....

anyway, I thought you put all those wireless jobbies in the bin and bought some fibre (wireless is a dumb idea unless you live in Venice....)

1. a router shouldn't need an anntenna with gain to reach 50m,
a Cisco 340 will do about 90m in free air.
The dB gain of the anntenna needs to be calculated, you shouldn't just bung on any old bit of wire

2. MIMO are good indoors...are we indoors, 'tis a mystery ?

3. will you stop it with the stupid repeater idea...

now tell us whether "long range" means in a field, or through a concrete bunker....

.

cant really tell you too much detail but i guess there are some fundamental bits of detail that i MAY have missed out

So its outside across a street with passing cars and the odd human across a range of about 300metres on average potentially 500metres (its used for various sites within different situations).

Im concerned you say MIMO are good indoors but what about outdoors!

As for those repeaters they're still on the table but not my idea! I suggest a single router that can cope with such ranges like the MIMO one claims it can do but i didnt realise their was implications with outdoors like you suggest.

so now i want further detail if you please

I wont put fibre because you cannot lay cable across council property and you cannot bend and twist and turn fibre cable around corners eventually reaching the workstation or router. So now hopefully i've answered all your problems you have with me! hehe Just calm yourself and bare with me. please buddy

bigredshark · 18 Jul 2006 at 15:40

bitslice said:
... just seen 50m of fibre auctioned off for a quid
so add two of those Dlink fibre adapters I mentioned last time (2 x £40 ?)

get a tall bloke to drill some holes, chuck it in the roof void, string it across a gap on a bit of steel wire.

take about a day tops... job done, never have to look at it again ever.

sorry, but we've been through all this before, and we've had no response as to why you won't put fibre in...
.

and become an expert in terminating fibre and aquire all the kit as if by magic of course....unless it comes with SX plugs on each end...

bitslice · 18 Jul 2006 at 15:44

bigredshark said:
and become an expert in terminating fibre and aquire all the kit as if by magic of course....unless it comes with SX plugs on each end...

yep, it came with plugs on the end.

I paid about £70 ish ? for a terminated 50m, so as cheap as Cat5 really

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bigredshark · 18 Jul 2006 at 15:45

bitslice said:
yep, it came with plugs on the end.

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wow, got to wonder if it'd work, but if it did, fair play, incredibly cheap!

bitslice · 18 Jul 2006 at 15:48

Lex said:
cant really tell you too much detail

Lex, you don't work for MI5, just give us some detail OK

Lex said:
I wont put fibre because you cannot lay cable across council property

yes you can, you just need the correct permits (mucho hassle though)
- thanks for giving a reason though, heh, it's only been a week of asking

Lex said:
and you cannot bend and twist and turn fibre cable around corners eventually reaching the workstation or router.

why would you need to bend anything ?
a 2 foot bend radius is OK, is there a problem with that ?

---- edit adding info as I go -----

MIMO is still OK outdoors, it's just that it's designed to cope with reflections (ie like indoors). You wouldn't normally use it as a point to point device.

Lex said:
So its outside across a street with passing cars

Free air then, good.
D-link bridge @ Overclockers
2 x D-Link DWL-G810 108Mbps Ethernet Bridge (NW-069-DL) £40 each

ah, re-read post -
"300-500m", you'll need a small yagi, about £40 each + installation (~£150),
you must talk to the supplier though to get the correct gain.

check whether your current AP's can do bridging (I'd prefer to buy the right stuff for the job and get the D-Links.)

tell your colleague to STFU

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bigredshark · 18 Jul 2006 at 15:55

actually, much tighter than 2ft bend radius depending on the fibre. Either way, I agree on this, I would never consider using wireless for connection between buildings/sites unless I had completely exhausted every possibility of using a wired connection.

EDIT: consumer wireless over 300-500m ?? You're kidding if you think that'll work. Cisco have kit that'll do the job but it involves fixed aerials etc and costs thousands. You could also putit together sourcing your own bits and using linksys APs but you'd have no guarentee and you need to work out all the tech stuff yourself.

bitslice · 18 Jul 2006 at 16:02

(deleted)
sorry, bigredshark, missed Lex's 300m bit, post amended

bigredshark · 18 Jul 2006 at 16:05

[this bit no longer needed!]

also, I've noticed it's suggested this is for business, so, simple answer! LES10 circuit!

Lex · 18 Jul 2006 at 16:30

why are you lot gunning me down! you're bored arent u! jeees let me take some time to read this gubbins that you guys wrote

bigredshark · 18 Jul 2006 at 16:38

Lex said:
why are you lot gunning me down! you're bored arent u! jeees let me take some time to read this gubbins that you guys wrote

yep, thats it to a tee! Too much starbucks, too little actual work to do!

bitslice · 18 Jul 2006 at 16:43

yup,
too hot to do anything useful at work, another 15 minutes and I'm standing in that cold shower.

anyway, we like Lex posts, it's like playing Blankety Blank

.

Lex · 18 Jul 2006 at 16:47

lol. i just worked on about 25cameras and reformatted a computer and now im back. Got to check some other computers but jeees you guys man! too much too much!

bitslice u said you wouldnt like to use MIMO outdoors. on a serious note how does this cause a problem? what makes you certain find me an extract or something. otherwise i wont believe you.

bigredshark · 18 Jul 2006 at 16:49

Lex said:
lol. i just worked on about 25cameras and reformatted a computer and now im back. Got to check some other computers but jeees you guys man! too much too much!

bitslice u said you wouldnt like to use MIMO outdoors. on a serious note how does this cause a problem? what makes you certain find me an extract or something. otherwise i wont believe you.

I'll back him up, MIMO uses signal reflection to increase range by virtue of having multiple signal paths (multiple in, multiple out..) So outdoors there are fewer reflections in free air so it's little better than regular wireless. he's perfectly correct though...

Lex · 18 Jul 2006 at 16:55

bigredshark said:
I'll back him up, MIMO uses signal reflection to increase range by virtue of having multiple signal paths (multiple in, multiple out..) So outdoors there are fewer reflections in free air so it's little better than regular wireless. he's perfectly correct though...

so the router that i want says 1000ft so you think that will diminish as there is less reflection across a biger range? so much so that its virtually the same as using a netgear 108mbps dg834g and bridge & repeater?

bitslice · 18 Jul 2006 at 16:59

Lex said:
bitslice u said you wouldnt like to use MIMO outdoors. on a serious note how does this cause a problem? what makes you certain find me an extract or something. otherwise i wont believe you.

heh,
It's not that I wouldn't use it as such, it'll work OK,
it's just that it's the wrong technology for the job.

MIMO has multiple aerials to enable it to remove multipath interference/increase range.
With a point to point link, you haven't got any multipath interference, cos you can physically see the other aerial. So you are paying for toys you don't use.

A point to point link using a couple of Yagi's and bridging AP's is a standard way of extending a LAN over free air.

I may be wrong, but I think you are trying to find ways of re-using your existing router kit. That's not always the best approach to network design.
Look at what kit is required and buy just that. Your LAN should be a no-brainer to maintain, don't make life difficult for yourself and the people who inherit your network for the sake of £100.

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