Mk1 MX-5 LSD question

[InvaderGIR]

Did I even own an MX5? I don't know for sure, now that I think about it.. Is this even real?

No. You had an Accord then changed to a Mondeo LX 1.8 which is your current car....



Lol at not being able to put down an extra 30-50bhp without an LSD. MX5s don't need an LSD to put down that sort of power well. I went out in Howard's a few times and it appeared to drive hard and fast without the need for an LSD. I'm sure Vigoro's is exactly the same too.

 

[Howard]

I'm sure Vigoro's is exactly the same too.

It is, I went out in it at the RR. Ahh, memories <3


Even -westy-'s "well used" old red one with 194,000,000 miles on the clock drove nicely.

 

[crinkleshoes]

I don't know, have we?

Ummmm... you are the one who started applying what I was saying solely to public roads? I even quoted that

Probably worth clarifying the situation to which you're applying your hyperbole, then.

I was specifically objecting to this comment:

Many people say the LSD doesn't really add much, I've not driven one without so I couldn't say..

I stand by my comment:

Whoever says that is completely and utterly wrong!

My first two MX5s came with limited slips... the first with the viscous on a nearly stock 1990 1.6... the second with a torsen on my supercharged one.

Now bought a 3rd mx5 for the other half as her commuter & I don't like driving it at all... for two reasons... the stock suspension is on its way out and the open diff... the open diff is horrible when you're used to slippers!

They add a huge amount to the driving experience.

Sure, easily achievable without an LSD.

Achievable, yes.

Maintainable, no.

Thus, insufficient control.

The MX5 is one of the most predictable and controllable RWD cars out there.

I don't disagree... without a LSD is probably better for most drivers as it effectively auto-corrects when you start sliding... you can get in much more trouble with a LSD if you're not able to control it.

However, the slide is much less controllable without an LSD - it will correct for you, you're not the one controlling what it's doing til you have sufficient grip available to both wheels... it's taking over for you, allowing you to have grip back quicker even if you don't know what you're doing.

Are they?

There's a difference between a little bit of wheel slippage causing the back end to go light in a corner, and the all out wheelspin-fest you seem to be describing.

Is it really not clear what I'm talking about?

 

[shoes]

Right, just to clarify, I'm not driving like a nob, and as stated earlier it's on roads with less than perfect surface conditions. I notice that my bmw with over 100bhp more and tyres only 10mm wider (205/50/15) with an lsd I'm getting much more traction and I believe this partly to be due to the lsd. it also means that the back end is much more controllable under slip conditions which are possible, even inevitable, on these surfaces even at low speeds.

I do intend taking the car on track at some point, and possibly to a drift day if i can get an LSD sorted, which is another reason one is desirable to me.

Edit: Just been out to look - the Tyres are the Milanza Hero HZ1s all round, 5mmish tread on each one, even wear all over. 26psi.

 

[crinkleshoes]

As said above, an open diff supercharged 5 can put it's power down fine in 90% of road going situations.

I got myself into quite a bit of fun trouble with my Torsen, which wouldn't have happened with an open diff.

Yeah... 90%... most people don't care about the other 10%... to me, that extra 10% makes the drive.

When you go from 100% -> 90%... you notice the change

 

[Howard]

They add a huge amount to the driving experience.

Replacing the knackered suspension would probably add more to the driving experience.

Is it really not clear what I'm talking about?

Evidently not.


Yes, you can drift and maintain slides in a RWD car better with an LSD. We get it.

No, you don't need an LSD in an MX5 to have huge amounts of rewarding fun in one of the sharpest, finest handling cars in its class. Even with 50% more horsepower over stock. It's a brilliantly-balanced chassis, it's not quite the same as dropping a bigger engine in a Vauxhall Corsa or something.

 

[Vigoro]

It is, I went out in it at the RR. Ahh, memories <3


Even -westy-'s "well used" old red one with 194,000,000 miles on the clock drove nicely.

All I remember is plooms of smoke pouring out the rear tyres when we tried to leave the parking bay, all the extra power we just couldn't get traction. After removing the supercharger belt we got out but had a serious rta the first corner we went through as the inside Tyre started spinning up

 

[Howard]

All I remember is plooms of smoke pouring out the rear tyres when we tried to leave the parking bay, all the extra power we just couldn't get traction. After removing the supercharger belt we got out but had a serious rta the first corner we went through as the inside Tyre started spinning up

Do you remember when your car had no traction on the rolling road?



No, neither do I.

 

[Janesy B]

LOL at needing an LSD on a stock MX-5.

 

[shoes]

No, you don't need an LSD in an MX5 to have huge amounts of rewarding fun in one of the sharpest, finest handling cars in its class. Even with 50% more horsepower over stock. It's a brilliantly-balanced chassis, it's not quite the same as dropping a bigger engine in a Vauxhall Corsa or something.

I totally agree, I've only had it a couple of days and have had bags of fun already. It really is a superb car, I can see what all the fuss is about.

LOL at needing an LSD on a stock MX-5.

Why lol? As it's not rained yet I don't know for sure, but I imagine wet roundabouts with an lsd is hilarious even with 130bhp

 

[crinkleshoes]

You've told people to 'try harder' numerous times in this thread

Yeah... not "get the car on 3 wheels every chance you get on a public road".

Must just be you then.

Along with most of the members of Nutz.

I do as many track days / experiences / etc as I can get my hands on.

What part of "I had no issues putting down the power" don't you understand? It had 165bhp, hardly big power.

Numerous OCUK folk have seen my MX5 and been out for passenger rides at meets and RR days. A few of them have even driven it. I don't recall any of them observing that fitting the supercharger without an LSD turned it into an undriveable POS. Maybe I'm imagining things. Did I even own an MX5? I don't know for sure, now that I think about it.. Is this even real?

Maybe you're getting so defensive because you think I'm somehow attacking your car? I'm not, get over it.

As I've mentioned already, I'm clearly talking about my own personal preference.

It seems to ME that giving it the extra power without the ability to control the power delivery is pointless.

Yes, it will be fine is "most" scenarios... but no, not ALL. There are times when the LSD would be beneficial & even you admitted that.

These times are when I've most enjoyed MX5 ownership

I will not be owning another MX5 without LSD... to ME the difference is like night and day.

 

[Janesy B]

Why lol? As it's not rained yet I don't know for sure, but I imagine wet roundabouts with an lsd is hilarious even with 130bhp

Getting the suspension geometry sorted along with getting a set of decent tyres should be your priority. If by some bizarre reason you find yourself completely incapable of taking a sharp corner without leaving a trail of smoke behind, by all means buy an LSD.

 

[Howard]

I totally agree, I've only had it a couple of days and have had bags of fun already. It really is a superb car, I can see what all the fuss is about.



Why lol? As it's not rained yet I don't know for sure, but I imagine wet roundabouts with an lsd is hilarious even with 130bhp

I had plenty of fun on roundabouts with mine Just means you can't quite sustain an awesome slide without and LSD.

It seems to ME that giving it the extra power without the ability to control the power delivery is pointless.

I can control the power delivery. The pedal on the right does that quite nicely

Yes, it will be fine is "most" scenarios... but no, not ALL. There are times when the LSD would be beneficial & even you admitted that.
.

Of course there are times when it would be beneficial. I'm just taking issue with you claiming that they drive like **** without one, in all cases, all of the time, which is quite clearly rubbish.

 

[p1RATE]

Getting the suspension geometry sorted along with getting a set of decent tyres should be your priority. If by some bizarre reason you find yourself completely incapable of taking a sharp corner without leaving a trail of smoke behind, by all means buy an LSD.

Yea i would put on a set of coilovers long before considering an LSD

 

[Janesy B]

BRB fitting LSD in my 1.6 Focus, always spinning up the wheels LOL!

 

[crinkleshoes]

Right, just to clarify, I'm not driving like a nob, and as stated earlier it's on roads with less than perfect surface conditions. I notice that my bmw with over 100bhp more and tyres only 10mm wider (205/50/15) with an lsd I'm getting much more traction and I believe this partly to be due to the lsd. it also means that the back end is much more controllable under slip conditions which are possible, even inevitable, on these surfaces even at low speeds.

I do intend taking the car on track at some point, and possibly to a drift day if i can get an LSD sorted, which is another reason one is desirable to me.

Edit: Just been out to look - the Tyres are the Milanza Hero HZ1s all round, 5mmish tread on each one, even wear all over. 26psi.

Yes, the controllable slide is down to the LSD

It is possible to pick up old vLSDs for £50 - but you never know if they're still ok or not. They're a clutch-like slipper & when they wear out - they turn in to an open diff. My first MX5 had a vLSD and it was still going strong at 115k miles. That's very unusual though (likely an aftermarket swap out), they seem to die at about 60-70k miles.

Torsen's are noticeably better in gripper conditions (worse on ice as they need a bit of grip in order to lock). As mentioned, they seem to go for around £300 - which doesn't seem too expensive to me.

Then you can go to the next level & get a fuji 1.5 way fitted in to your existing diff housing for about £500. I've never had the chance to experience one of these - so don't know how they compare to the Torsen.



As for tyres...

You can get T1Rs in 195/50/15 fantastically cheap on ebay... I remember buying sets of 4 for only £170 Think they're around the £200 mark now, but still quite cheap for rubber

R888s are good in that size too, although prices seem to have gone up quite a bit lately (I used to be able to get them for £75/corner fitted).

You've still got quite a bit of life left on those crappy tyres. Can you get your hands on some cheapy rims? Might be worth using them as rear tyres for a track/airfield fun day... you can have some fantastic fun sticking grippy tyres on the front and crappy tyres on the rear.

 

[InvaderGIR]

Yea i would put on a set of coilovers long before considering an LSD

Slam it on £150 coilies blud. sik.


Adjusting the car's geometry does not mean putting on some 'coilovers', the MX5 is massively adjustable from the factory, getting it set up properly by somewhere like WIM or some such will give the car much better handling etc.

 

[Howard]

They're a clutch-like slipper

They use viscous fluid actually, which degrades over time. Need a bit of heat in it to start working effectively anyway I believe. Torsen is a much better option like you said.

 

[shoes]

Getting the suspension geometry sorted along with getting a set of decent tyres should be your priority. If by some bizarre reason you find yourself completely incapable of taking a sharp corner without leaving a trail of smoke behind, by all means buy an LSD.

It's going in for a full geo setup tomorrow (hence wanting some idea from westy of how to have it setup). Not wishing to turn this car into yet another money pit I'm going to leave the tyres for now and see how I get on, if it comes down to it I'll put some better ones on.

It's not a problem at all on the main roads, and it's only happened a few times in the lanes, but i'd like an LSD regardless as I simply prefer the feel of driving with one, and if the back end steps out.... oh well

I understand what you're saying, and this certainly isn't a case of necessity, it's a great car as it is (most fun stock car i've ever driven in fact) but a little tweak here and there would certainly not be detrimental.

 

[crinkleshoes]

Replacing the knackered suspension would probably add more to the driving experience.

Yes - that's why I listed it as one of the issues I have with her car... lol

The lack of LSD is the other reason.

Evidently not.


Yes, you can drift and maintain slides in a RWD car better with an LSD. We get it.

No, you don't need an LSD in an MX5 to have huge amounts of rewarding fun in one of the sharpest, finest handling cars in its class. Even with 50% more horsepower over stock. It's a brilliantly-balanced chassis, it's not quite the same as dropping a bigger engine in a Vauxhall Corsa or something.

Not just "better"... you have no real control of a slide without an LSD.

The only control you have is initiating the slide & predicting where you'll be able to get control back.

Some people like being able to control the whole thing

"Most" don't need it... I do.

If I'd never driven one with an LSD - it wouldn't be on my list of issues, only the suspension would be... I know what I'm missing / it's missing when I drive it & for me, that substantially takes away from the fun of the whole thing.

Other people aren't as picky as I am... that doesn't mean my points/opinions are irrelevant as you seem to want to brush them off as.