MMO control Q. Mouse / keyboard

Srengam

Srengam

Srengam

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28 Jun 2011
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I've been playing SWTOR since launch, and i'm really enjoying it, I think as it's my first MMO everything is new to me, so it isn't boring.

But, I'm definately a "clicker". How bad is this? I'm getting to a point now where I guess I want to start "standing out" as a player, and not sure if being a clicker is gonna stop me getting to a top level player.

I'm using Nostromo gamepad which I love, and I've broken down basically what I'm doing with my left hand on the Nostromo, and what I'm doing with my right hand on the mouse:

Mouse:
1. Camera panning
2. Selecting enemies, selecting allies
3. Clicking attacks
4. Clicking heals
5. Clicking buffs, med packs
6. Area of effects (heals and attacks)

Gamepad
1. Movement
2. Crowd Control (thumbstick)
3. Force Speed and Force Rescue (little finger)
4. Selecting nearest enemy.

Are there any tips, tutorials or general advice available from those players who simply "stand out", on how I should be controlling my charactor?

Thx all.
 
If you have to stop moving/turning to use defensive spells, you're a sitting duck.

If you have to stop moving/turning to attack, you can let easy kills get away or at least do less damage.

All you should be using your mouse for is moving the camera and occasionally selecting enemies. You should bind 1-0, shift and ctrl on your nostromo so you instantly have 30 keybinds you can use, I have a G13 and have the thumbstick bound to QWES, I also have jump bound on it and a few menu shortcuts but it has more keys than the Nostromo (the reason I picked it) so I don't know how many you'd be able to get on yours. I also have esc, toggle auto attack and tab (usually select nearest enemy) on my G13 for quickly changing enemies and stopping attacking when needed.
 
Your non-mouse hand should be controlling pretty much everything apart from the camera (unless you bind things to your mouse buttons).

Generally for main skills I use the easy to reach keys around WSAD as well as shift and ctrl versions. So 1-6, Shift 1-6, ctrl 1-6, qerfzxcv, shift qerfzxcv, ctrl qerfzxcv. Not directly comparable to you gamepad, I know, but it's what you should be aiming for.
 
This is all really helpful.

Since i'm using a gaming pad I can actually remap the WASD keys aswell, so I could have all 14 keys on it used, and theirs a nice little button on the thumb section I could asign for shift too, so that's 28 keybinds under my left hand.

Really getting somewhere with this now thanks all.

I'll keep you updated with how I get on.
 
Mouse to select enemies and move the camera

WASD to move around
TAB to select nearest enemy
1-0 for most used attacks

Sorry but not sure what you're finding difficult...
 
As an idea, here's the layout I use on my G13.

30b0o55.jpg


T is toggle auto attack, M is map, B bags, space jump, escape cancels whatever I'm doing/closes windows, V varies from game to game, often it doesn't do anything, it can be an extra bind though or open another menu screen. - and = are the extra binds for games that have 12 slots in each action bar though I avoid them because they're a bit further away, though they're still usable.

On my mouse middle click is auto run and both mouse buttons together runs in most MMOs. I have a couple of extra buttons but the G13 has more than enough binds so I just use them for PTT on VOIP.
 
Eames said:
Mouse to select enemies and move the camera

WASD to move around
TAB to select nearest enemy
1-0 for most used attacks

Sorry but not sure what you're finding difficult...
Click to expand...

Using 0 on a standard keyboard is as bad as clicking, you lose control of your character because the best you can do is run forwards with your mouse.

Plus when you have a keyboard like the G13 or Nostromo you have to custom bind everything so it makes you think more about what you need and have to prioritise rather than just using default bindings.
 
Finding a keybind setup that works for me is something I'm in the process of doing - buying a Razer Naga stopped me from being a combination of a clicker and someone who took his hand off the movement keys to fire off spells on 1-9, as all my offensive spells/moves are on the keypad on the mouse. Best gaming peripheral I've bought without a shadow of a doubt.

Like you I have a Nostromo too and use it all the time for PvE play, but the more I read on the subject I'm wondering whether for PvP I'd be better off using my keyboard and a selection of binds around WASD as described by Clav.

I guess it all comes down to which is easier to learn from a 'muscle memory' point of view - it's very difficult to break old (for that read 'bad') habits.
 
At the end of the day it's an MMO, and not even a good one at that, most 10 year olds could (and do) play the game at the 'top level' because the skill cap is extremely low. I wouldn't worry about how you control games until you get to something like high level Starcraft, Dota, CoD or whatever where it might actually matter.

PS: You don't need to buy any kind of game pad or MMO mouse, I get along fine controlling MMOs near solely from the keyboard, it's perfectly doable. Having a couple of extra buttons on the mouse does help, but I don't see what you'd need 12 for.
 
I use (for WoW):

1, 2, 3, 4, F1, F2, F3, F4
Ctrl + Q, W, E, R, T, F, C, G
Shift + Q, W, E, R, T, F, C, G.
Shift + 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (only for druid and deathknight)
Middle mouse button and the two side mouse buttons.

So, that's 27 keybinds (32 for druid and dk).
 
Adnams Drinker said:
Like you I have a Nostromo too and use it all the time for PvE play, but the more I read on the subject I'm wondering whether for PvP I'd be better off using my keyboard and a selection of binds around WASD as described by Clav.
Click to expand...

Why would a standard keyboard be better for PvP? The whole point of the Nostromo/G13 is that you can move your character with your thumb which leaves all 4 other fingers on that hand free to use abilities.

I actually don't like the feel of the keys on the G13, it's the only thing making me want a different keyboard, but I still use it just because of the freedom I get from the thumbstick.
 
Clicking will dull your reactions and repeatedly take your focus off what's important. You also noted movement under gamepad not mouse? I do hope you aren't keyboard turning either? :)

My Rule: If you have an ability you have to use in combat, bind it.
 
I am always amazed to see some very very good EVE players clicking stuff instead of using keyboard shortcuts in their vids.

If Prom and Kil2 can click and win I guess you can too.

It seems to me to be clearly more efficient to be on keyboard and mouse though because you have twice the throughput for inputs (e.g. click while hitting a key to do something).
 
I was a clicker when I played WoW and proud of it. People seem to think it means you have to key turn but it doesn't because you can still use the mouse to fast turn if you're able to play fast enough, and you can still incorporate hotkeys into your playstyle. I was voted best rogue pvper on the server and was the rogue officer in the top guild on the server. People on the server actually stated that I had transformed their views about clickers. Even posts above this say "it will slow you down", but that's not the case, as MMOs have diminishing returns, meaning if you have a fast enough hand, your mouse can be everywhere you want it to be before the return appears and as soon as you need to utilise an ability for a given situation. Same goes for 'having to look away' - not so. Once you learn where your abilities are and the movement range of your cursor, you dont have to look anywhere for you to click in the correct place. So in all honesty, if you feel comfortable clicking, then click away and just practice until you get very fast at it.
 
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Facutally, you can't mouse turn and click a skill at the same time. You can say clickers are fine all you want, but that's a solid fact that no one in their right mind can deny. Why would you do that when you have the option to be able to turn and use skills at the same time?

If you're not looking when you're clicking on your skills, there's always the chance you'll click the wrong skill. Even the best mouse and mousemat can catch from time to time if there's some dust or something on it.

As for EVE, I used keybindings when I played and preferred it, the gameplay is much slower though and you don't generally need to pay quite as much attention to your enemies. I know you still do, but that half a second that they're turning to MWD towards you for example is less likely to turn a fight than the half second when that melee you're chasing turns back towards you and stuns you.
 
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So I tried using the mouse for movement last night and tbh I thought it really hindered me. You can't strathe with a mouse. Once my camera is where I want it I like to use forward, backwards and strathe for moving, that way I'm always facing the action.

But, I really do think keybinding everything would be a huge advatage, not having to take your eyes off the action would be so good, and also proabably make it a better game as your actually watching the battle, instead of icons.

Hmm, decisions decisions.
 
ThomBassmonkey said:
Why would a standard keyboard be better for PvP? The whole point of the Nostromo/G13 is that you can move your character with your thumb which leaves all 4 other fingers on that hand free to use abilities.

I actually don't like the feel of the keys on the G13, it's the only thing making me want a different keyboard, but I still use it just because of the freedom I get from the thumbstick.
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It all comes down to a question of control - I tried the thumbstick on my Nostromo when I first got it and felt that it didn't give me the degree of control I wanted. Maybe that's because I'm right-handed and my left hand is just naturally less dextrous - although that said I can touch-type quite happily, so maybe I just didn't give myself enough time to get used to it.

I am still experimenting to find a set up that I'm totally happy with - I have all the tools at my disposal and just need to find a way of working with them to best effect. Remember this is very much something that has to work for an individual, regardless of how many keybinding guides or threads of this nature you might read. What works for you might not work for someone else ...
 
Srengam said:
So I tried using the mouse for movement last night and tbh I thought it really hindered me. You can't strathe with a mouse. Once my camera is where I want it I like to use forward, backwards and strathe for moving, that way I'm always facing the action.

But, I really do think keybinding everything would be a huge advatage, not having to take your eyes off the action would be so good, and also proabably make it a better game as your actually watching the battle, instead of icons.

Hmm, decisions decisions.
Click to expand...

You don't use the mouse for movement, you use it for turning. You basically have the right mouse button held down all the time, then you strafe using your Q and E (or whatever you use) keys.

Adnams Drinker said:
It all comes down to a question of control - I tried the thumbstick on my Nostromo when I first got it and felt that it didn't give me the degree of control I wanted. Maybe that's because I'm right-handed and my left hand is just naturally less dextrous - although that said I can touch-type quite happily, so maybe I just didn't give myself enough time to get used to it.

I am still experimenting to find a set up that I'm totally happy with - I have all the tools at my disposal and just need to find a way of working with them to best effect. Remember this is very much something that has to work for an individual, regardless of how many keybinding guides or threads of this nature you might read. What works for you might not work for someone else ...
Click to expand...

Yeah, it took me a while using the thumbstick on my G13 to get used to it. I still prefer it though. There's always the option to bind your WASD keys to your Nostromo in the same shape though, I just feel that that takes up more keys than you need though and prevents your fingers from being on skills that they could be on.

Of course keybinds should be set up for the individual, lots of people for example use TFGH or ESDF has their movement keys instead of WASD so that they can bind to the left. It's just that if you're clicking skills, while you're doing that you either risk misclicking (you risk that anyway as hitting keys is far more intuitive) or taking your eyes off the action and you temporarily can't control your character as well if you're not mouse turning.

Edit: Just an example (I haven't played WoW in a while so sorry if any of the specifics are out, but you should get the idea). You're playing a mage in arena on WoW, you have a rogue chasing you, you're both on low hp. Your blink comes off CD just as you see an enemy mage's ring of frost appear right in front of you. If you keep moving forwards, you'll get frozen and keyboard turning won't turn you sharply enough to avoid the RoF. If you turn sharply to the side and keep running, the rogue will gain space on you. The best way would be to turn sharply and blink, but without keybindings, you have to turn, then move your mouse, find the skill and click it. That takes a lot longer than simply moving the mouse to turn and pressing a key and that's not even countering in reaction times.

If you want to trinket a stun, you need to trinket it as early as possible. If you get stunned then have to find the trinket with your mouse, that takes longer than just hitting a key which is only a fraction of a second longer than your reactions. I'm not saying clickers always suck at games, but you just can't possibly have the same reactions as hitting keys when you have to factor in moving the mouse too.
 
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ThomBassmonkey said:
Facutally, you can't mouse turn and click a skill at the same time. You can say clickers are fine all you want, but that's a solid fact that no one in their right mind can deny. Why would you do that when you have the option to be able to turn and use skills at the same time?

If you're not looking when you're clicking on your skills, there's always the chance you'll click the wrong skill. Even the best mouse and mousemat can catch from time to time if there's some dust or something on it.

As for EVE, I used keybindings when I played and preferred it, the gameplay is much slower though and you don't generally need to pay quite as much attention to your enemies. I know you still do, but that half a second that they're turning to MWD towards you for example is less likely to turn a fight than the half second when that melee you're chasing turns back towards you and stuns you.
Click to expand...

It takes a fraction of a second to click turn, and if you really feel the desperate need to cast as you're turning then use a hotkey at the same time. As for clicking the wrong skill, rarely if ever happened to me.
 
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