Mot. Fast Idle test. Kwit Fit.

shrek2 · 24 Feb 2011 at 18:06

My Hyundai Couple failed it Mot last Saturday on the fast idle test at kwik fit. He had it on fast idle for a total of 9 minutes. Isn't this a bit excessive? I thought the car was going to blow a gasket. He said I needed a new lambda sensor and calipers for the rear brakes at an eye watering £680 because it also failed on the handbrake.
I took it to Elias in Bangor today and the emissions passed first time and all I need is a set of handbrake cables to get it through. He said all he needed to do was drive a bit to get the engine warm. Total price £95. Problem is I am wary of taking it back to Kwik Fit on Saturday to have the retest done :eek:

sigma · 24 Feb 2011 at 18:08

Have a word with the management and get them to speak to Elias if they do not believe you.

AHarvey · 24 Feb 2011 at 18:12

tell them you had it checked by another garage and what they failed it on was a load of rubbish. You've had X repaired and that was all it needed.

If they kick off threaten to report them.

Not sure who the governing body is but trading standards might be interested. I'd also avoid kwik fit in the future, I don't know anyone that has had a decent time with them.

MrMoonX · 24 Feb 2011 at 18:14

report them to VOSA

Fireskull · 24 Feb 2011 at 18:15

Kwik Fit are *******'s I took my car to them and they said it failed the emissions test, ok fine I bought a new Cat at £160 (not from them though), got another garage to fix my sills, and do the MOT, and guess what surprise surprise the old Cat passed fine!
Not so big a deal as the old cat was rattling like hell but I did not need to spend £160 on top of just over £400 I had to pay for the MOT and sill repair!
/kwik-fit rant

shrek2 · 24 Feb 2011 at 18:16

Thing is isn't having the car on a fast idle test for nine minutes a bit excessive? I was literally cringing. I did time it as well. I have already filled out a complaint form on their website.

sigma · 24 Feb 2011 at 18:21

Normally a fast idle shouldn't be too bad or harmful to the engine; how fast was it? Sounds like it was a bit excessive.

mattyfez · 24 Feb 2011 at 18:42

sigma said:
Normally a fast idle shouldn't be too bad or harmful to the engine; how fast was it? Sounds like it was a bit too excessive.

Yeh fast idle, is just that, 2.5, or 3k rev Iirc ? It's not a stress test. If they were warming the cat up maybe they would rev it a little, but that sounds excessive...

I used to have a sport cat on a modded engine, and it needed to be hot to pass emissions, but a regular car? Very sus if you ask me.

shauncr91 · 24 Feb 2011 at 18:49

mattyfez said:
Yeh fast idle, is just that, 2.5, or 3k rev Iirc ? It's not a stress test. If they were warming the cat up maybe they would rev it a little, but that sounds excessive...

Weird, when I watched a garage do a fast idle test a couple of weeks ago it was around 2 minutes max. And yes, the computer said to hold it between 2.5 and 3k.

Dogbreath · 24 Feb 2011 at 19:56

shrek2 said:
Thing is isn't having the car on a fast idle test for nine minutes a bit excessive? I was literally cringing. I did time it as well. I have already filled out a complaint form on their website.

Why were you cringing? If the engine in your car is unable to sustain 2000RPM under no load for 9 minutes without damage you have much bigger problems than the emissions. He almost certainly left it that long in order to try and get it through, the hotter you get the cat, the better it works.

That said I still fail to understand why otherwise intelligent people entrust these monkeys with their car. BTW the rear calipers sticking are quite common on the Coupe, usually just needs to be stripped down, cleaned and lubricated, but much quicker and easier for a garage to fit new ones.

mattyfez · 24 Feb 2011 at 20:25

Dogbreath said:
Why were you cringing? If the engine in your car is unable to sustain 2000RPM under no load for 9 minutes without damage you have much bigger problems than the emissions. He almost certainly left it that long in order to try and get it through, the hotter you get the cat, the better it works.

That said I still fail to understand why otherwise intelligent people entrust these monkeys with their car. BTW the rear calipers sticking are quite common on the Coupe, usually just needs to be stripped down, cleaned and lubricated, but much quicker and easier for a garage to fit new ones.

To be fair, I used kwik fit for my mot last month, via online booking and it was a good experience, there was a tkmaxx next door, so I went for a 30min rummage and that was that.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trust them further than an mot or tyre fit, but you can't really fake an mot fail these days, or if you do, there are obvious channels of complaint. Vosa for one. Especially if the op got a pass at a different garage....one of them is in the wrong....

That said, I know my cars, I'm not a pro mechanic by any standard but I'm pretty clued up, and I knew my car would pass, if it didn't, there would've been rucktions.

Maybe they were pirates and smelled blood with the op? Maybe they were incompetant? Maybe the op's car was a genuine fail?

Either way, faking mot results is pretty serious, and there are accessible ways of addressing that.

Iceman · 24 Feb 2011 at 21:32

With the emissions test if it goes through the B.E.T (basic emissions test) that is maybe a minute to do. If it fails this, depending on the machine they have, you will have to rev the engine (normally between 2.5 and 3,000 RPM) for approx 3 mins. The 3 minutes is what our machine uses others maybe more or less.

mattyfez · 24 Feb 2011 at 22:48

Iceman said:
With the emissions test if it goes through the B.E.T (basic emissions test) that is maybe a minute to do. If it fails this, depending on the machine they have, you will have to rev the engine (normally between 2.5 and 3,000 RPM) for approx 3 mins. The 3 minutes is what our machine uses others maybe more or less.

I thought it consisted of 2 seperate tests, idle, and fast idle ie 2-3kRPM ?
That's what my print-outs always say, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

But as mentioned above, if the car struggles to do 3k rpm, then theres something wrong, as that is pretty much normal engine speed, for cruising... well ok, faster than cruising, but its hardly pushing it...

Well unless your driving in a high gear at slow speed, 4th or 5th to save fuel etc.

EDIT: looking at my MOT, the natural idle was passed by "manual check", which I guess means, its not really checked unless the engines running funny or pumping smoke out or something?

Iceman · 24 Feb 2011 at 22:52

Yes it does, it does a fast idle test 30 secs @ 2.5 - 3,000 rpm and then idles for 30 seconds, this is whats known as the B.E.T. If this fails say the fast idle we have to rev at 2.5 rpm for 3 miuntes. But like i say this is our emissions test machine.

Berger · 24 Feb 2011 at 22:53

My car required loads of throttle to be used in order to get the CAT hot enough to operate properly.

I had it done mid December when it was freezing.

Was I bothered about this?

Not at all, I have tracked and will take the car on track again where it will spend several hours between 5-7k rpm.

mattyfez · 24 Feb 2011 at 23:08

Berger said:
My car required loads of throttle to be used in order to get the CAT hot enough to operate properly.

I had it done mid December when it was freezing.

Was I bothered about this?

Not at all, I have tracked and will take the car on track again where it will spend several hours between 5-7k rpm.

Performance cars generally need to be "HOT", especially if they are modded, as the exhaust/cat is more efficient when its hot. Im not sure on the science behind it, but my old garage, who knew my old car, used to imply that I needed to give it a good hoofing for 20 mins before I brought it in for testing.

"hot" is probably the wrong word... "up to operating temperature"

mattyfez · 24 Feb 2011 at 23:20

Iceman said:
Yes it does, it does a fast idle test 30 secs @ 2.5 - 3,000 rpm and then idles for 30 seconds, this is whats known as the B.E.T. If this fails say the fast idle we have to rev at 2.5 rpm for 3 miuntes. But like i say this is our emissions test machine.

OK, interesting, thanks.

Quick question, all emmisions testers (for MOT purposes) should be standard though, shouldn't they?

BigglesPiP · 25 Feb 2011 at 01:23

You can appeal and have VOSA check it if you don't take it from the testing station. But I bet they find in favour of Kwik Fit. Their history of misconduct means that they are now on one licence for the whole company, rather than per garage like anyone else. their testers get 2 weeks more training than other MOT testers in an effort to keep this license. Kwik Fit do an honest MOT now. Everything else they do is rubbish or a con though. Same goes for National Tyres.

The numerous test efforts and a drive (thrashing) from a mechanic has probably cleaned the soot out of the CAT.

The brakes is interesting, did they fail it on them or just say it needed them?

sigma · 25 Feb 2011 at 10:51

BigglesPiP said:
Kwik Fit do an honest MOT now.

Evidently not.

ubersonic · 25 Feb 2011 at 11:27

I had MOT problems with Kwikfit a few years back, they wouldn't accept that my 1995 Prelude was supposed to take a non-cat test because it was an import >.>

Took it to another garage in the end.