MSI B450 Tomahawk Max issues with new 5800X3D

2Drunk2Funk

2Drunk2Funk

2Drunk2Funk

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Hi, hope you can advise!

I dropped a 5800X3D into B450. I had already updated to latest BIOS and AMD drivers before cpu swap.

Would not boot at start, eventually did but MSI tool shows my memory at 2133 when its 3600 memory.
I tried to change in BIOS as XMP had turned off, turned back on.
PC would not boot up, cpu fail led lit.
tried cmos reset, no joy.
Got back up after taking cooler and cpu off, cleaning and putting back on.

Questions;
Am I missing something with prep? did the mobo bios to latest and amd drivers?
Is there some settings in BIOS I need to make (that will allow it to reboot!) to handle the memory at correct speed?
Is there some 5800X3D settings I should change in BIOS?

To add to confusion, I added a 4070 Super earlier in week. That was working fine though.

Feels like got a PC that may or may not start, and is not set up to work on the "Auto" settings from BIOS to the proper usage for CPU and Memory



Longer version audit of what I did...
Multiple issues ensued..
1. Would not boot for ages, missed some dos style messages as they disappeared quite quickly. System then booted and I went into windows 11. Watched for a while, temp sat idle at 40-43c
2. DRAM shows 2133 when its PC4-28800 3600mhz CL17-19-19-39. Restarted into BIOS which showed XMP had turned off, turned on and profile had my 3600 settings ....
3. System would not boot. Mobo showed CPU fail led. I tried CMOS reset (using screwdriver as no cap) 10-15sec hold. Tried a few times. still showed fail led....
4. Took apart cooler and cleaned off CPU again to checked, pins, mobo slot etc and all looked good. I say this as removing my old 3700X took the CPU out with it, it is still welded to the cooler. I was worried it may have damaged CPU receptor. Both 3700 and 5800X3D pins look fine, present and straight. (and the 5800 had already booted once)
5. Cleaned up and added more paste (Very old artic silver 2, just enough left) as the Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120SE tube that came with only had enough for one application :/
6. Booted, showed Fail again but after a couple of what looked like restarts, I saw same text as #1, before it disappeared.
7. I am now back in windows with Dram still showing 2133

Thanks
 
It supports 2 profiles so can try.
Last time I turned that on though I could not get back into BIOS. Cmos reset attempts failed. I could remove battery I suppose if need too.
Using a screwdriver should be fine for resetting?

I need to get back into bios to see if its reset XMP to off state. I have not done that yet as took so long to get it to boot so taking this change to search for the issues, and come here to the guru's.

I will have to look back on what I change, was hoping Auto settings would work out.
Not familiar with manually setting up Dram.

I know its Viper Steel 16gb 2x8gb DDR4 PC4-28800 3600MHz with 17-19-19-39
 
Probably your ram - the 5800x3d is officially rated to run at a max of 3200mhz - I've seen no end of posts on various forums of people saying their systems won't run at higher speeds. You say the system is running at stock 2133mhz. Try running it at 3200 and tinker with the timings, or buy new ram. Also is your ram kit on the Tomahawk qualified vendors list as can be seen on the MSI website?

Have you got your ram in the correct slots (2&4)?
Is the voltage in bios at 1.35v?


From the AMD website:
Max Memory Speed

2x1R

DDR4-3200

2x2R

DDR4-3200

4x1R

DDR4-2933

4x2R

DDR4-2667
 
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I made sure my bios was up to date, upgrading from a 3600 to a 5800X3D, popped it in and no issues, set ram speed to 3600 cl16 and away I went
 
rumple9 said:
Probably your ram - the 5800x3d is officially rated to run at a max of 3200mhz - I've seen no end of posts on various forums of people saying their systems won't run at higher speeds. You say the system is running at stock 2133mhz. Try running it at 3200 and tinker with the timings, or buy new ram. Also is your ram kit on the Tomahawk qualified vendors list as can be seen on the MSI website?

Have you got your ram in the correct slots (2&4)?
Is the voltage in bios at 1.35v?


From the AMD website:
Max Memory Speed

2x1R

DDR4-3200

2x2R

DDR4-3200

4x1R

DDR4-2933

4x2R

DDR4-2667
Click to expand...
I will look to 3200 settings, just not sure what needs manual setting and what will stay Auto, to cover the memories 17-19-19-30
Memory is in 2&4, not moved from previous CPU.
Not sure Volts, though on auto. When I dare to restart I will check.

I have been running this memory though for 4 years on the same mobo with a 3700X without issue.

/edit. See what you mean on AMD site. Makes sense that enabling XMP causing issue as would attempt memory reported capabilities and set t0 3600?
 
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Thekwango said:
You mention the original cpu came out with the cooler, checked the socket for damage?
Click to expand...
I did that as soon as it happened. Zoomed in on mobo socket and it all looked clean, straight and no pins left in there.
The CPU pins stuck on the cooler also looked all present and neatly aligned. did not see anything that looked bad.
PC running in windows for a couple hours now. Temp around 40c

Frustrating game crashing now. Upgraded cpu and gpu to give some more life into this AM4. Not much use if games I play wont run now
 
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2Drunk2Funk said:
I did that as soon as it happened. Zoomed in on mobo socket and it all looked clean, straight and no pins left in there.
The CPU pins stuck on the cooler also looked all present and neatly aligned. did not see anything that looked bad.
PC running in windows for a couple hours now. Temp around 40c

Frustrating game crashing now. Upgraded cpu and gpu to give some more life into this AM4. Not much use if games I play wont run now
Click to expand...
I just upgraded my dads MSI B450 mortar max this weekend funny enough and had similar issues, I had to also flash the bios for the CPU to be supported, his bios version was from 2020 and I jumped straight to the latest version in 2023, I changed his CPU from a 3400G to a 5700G, when I set the bios up and save and exited, it wouldnt post, I had to reset the bios, hes also got DDR3600, what I found is I had to do one thing at a time more or less, you will have to be in advanced mode for the below, not the easy setup option.

So I set XMP, made sure ram voltage was at 1.35v and I had to set SOC voltage to 1.15v, but this is probably because its an APU, made sure all ram timings were on auto, Disabled power down, made sure its running 1:1, and set gear down mode to auto then save and exit.

Re-enter the bios and set up the RAM timing section, set main ram timings, again......save and exit.

Then re-enter the bios and set CPU specific settings, set up the PBO settings in the AMD overclocking menu just to enabled, and the ram parameters in there too, there a section to set ram to 1T, gear down mode to auto and set the soc voltage too, bear in mind soc voltage in the AMD overclocking menu works in mV, so if you set it to 1.15v in your tweaker menu, set it to 1150 in the AMD overclocking menu, you should also have an option to set the infinity fabric, thats half of your ram speed, so 3600 is 1800 infinity fabric, again saved and exit.

Then finally went back in one last time and set everything else up like boot order, disable fastboot, disable CSM, enable WiFi etc etc, save and exit, I know its a bit long winded, but it seemed to be the only thing that worked, setting everything up at once I think confused the bios or something.

If your previous chip ran 3600 fine, the 5800X3D should be more than capable of doing it, AMDD's jump from 3000 series to 5000 series was huge with massive improvements in all departments.
 
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2Drunk2Funk said:
Just tried MWIII
Had one game MP fine, second game just paused then crashed to windows.
Another issue with this "upgrade" ;(

On the plus it was smooth and almost maxing out fps at 144 on 1440p screen
Click to expand...

I presume this was at 3200mhz you managed to play a game, as you said it wouldn't boot at 3600mhz? If so tinker with the timings as I said above to try and get it stable. MSI boards have a feature called memory try it in the bios which lets you try different ram timings to see which is stable on the fly, rather than manually doing each setting.

I also suggest you do not allow any cpu overclocking or PBO.

I note you are using your old cooler. Is it sufficient as 5800X3D runs very hot. Have you checked your temps?

Finally set Kombo Strike in bios to 3 - this will undervolt the cpu and give better results, stability, lower power draw and cooler temps
 
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rumple9 said:
I presume this was at 3200mhz you managed to play a game, as you said it wouldn't boot at 3600mhz? If so tinker with the timings as I said above to try and get it stable. MSI boards have a feature called memory try it in the bios which lets you try different ram timings to see which is stable on the fly, rather than manually doing each setting.

I also suggest you do not allow any cpu overclocking or PBO.

I note you are using your old cooler. Is it sufficient as 5800X3D runs very hot. Have you checked your temps?

Finally set Kombo Strike in bios to 3 - this will undervolt the cpu and give better results, stability, lower power draw and cooler temps
Click to expand...
with XMP on, BIOS failed a few times to boot, so actually it had set the DRAM to 2133. That is what I was in a game with.

Not intending to OC anything in the near future, just got the components.

Older cooler? Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120SE as recommended in a few places and in the CPU Forum.
It is showing 38-42c idle in windows
I just set the Kombo Strike to 3 in BIOS (was disabled). Temps idle are same as on Default setting.

Absolutely shattered now so will have to continue tuning and testing tomorrow.

Appreciate all the guidance, novice when comes to changing anything in the BIOS from Auto!
I can build PCs and update BIOS etc but don't know the ins and outs of the settings.
 
Jamin280672 said:
I just upgraded my dads MSI B450 mortar max this weekend funny enough and had similar issues, I had to also flash the bios for the CPU to be supported, his bios version was from 2020 and I jumped straight to the latest version in 2023, I changed his CPU from a 3400G to a 5700G, when I set the bios up and save and exited, it wouldnt post, I had to reset the bios, hes also got DDR3600, what I found is I had to do one thing at a time more or less, you will have to be in advanced mode for the below, not the easy setup option.

So I set XMP, made sure ram voltage was at 1.35v and I had to set SOC voltage to 1.15v, but this is probably because its an APU, made sure all ram timings were on auto, Disabled power down, made sure its running 1:1, and set gear down mode to auto then save and exit.

Re-enter the bios and set up the RAM timing section, set main ram timings, again......save and exit.

Then re-enter the bios and set CPU specific settings, set up the PBO settings in the AMD overclocking menu just to enabled, and the ram parameters in there too, there a section to set ram to 1T, gear down mode to auto and set the soc voltage too, bear in mind soc voltage in the AMD overclocking menu works in mV, so if you set it to 1.15v in your tweaker menu, set it to 1150 in the AMD overclocking menu, you should also have an option to set the infinity fabric, thats half of your ram speed, so 3600 is 1800 infinity fabric, again saved and exit.

Then finally went back in one last time and set everything else up like boot order, disable fastboot, disable CSM, enable WiFi etc etc, save and exit, I know its a bit long winded, but it seemed to be the only thing that worked, setting everything up at once I think confused the bios or something.

If your previous chip ran 3600 fine, the 5800X3D should be more than capable of doing it, AMDD's jump from 3000 series to 5000 series was huge with massive improvements in all departments.
Click to expand...
Appreciate the details response.

Just turned OFF XMP, as 3600 (or at least default settings) cause reboots and a reset to 2133.
Changed Dram Volt to 1.35 as suggested.
Manually set DRAM to 3200 (from @rumple9 comment re 5800X3D only supports 3200, at least it says that on the AMD site)
Set tcl from 15 to 17, trcdrd & trcdwr from 15 to 19, tRP from 15 to 19 and tRAS from 36 to 39. These match the memory settings (apart from 3600mhz)

Set Kombo strike to 3, from disabled. I hope that is the CPU settings you mention?
Not seen some of other mentions, nor sure where they are, like SOC settings and PBO settings.

Restarted between settings as suggested.

Will resume tomorrow as knackered and need bed!

Thanks again for assist
 
2Drunk2Funk said:
Appreciate the details response.

Just turned OFF XMP, as 3600 (or at least default settings) cause reboots and a reset to 2133.
Changed Dram Volt to 1.35 as suggested.
Manually set DRAM to 3200 (from @rumple9 comment re 5800X3D only supports 3200, at least it says that on the AMD site)
Set tcl from 15 to 17, trcdrd & trcdwr from 15 to 19, tRP from 15 to 19 and tRAS from 36 to 39. These match the memory settings (apart from 3600mhz)

Set Kombo strike to 3, from disabled. I hope that is the CPU settings you mention?
Not seen some of other mentions, nor sure where they are, like SOC settings and PBO settings.

Restarted between settings as suggested.

Will resume tomorrow as knackered and need bed!

Thanks again for assist
Click to expand...
Just so you are aware, all AMD AM4 CPU's only support a max of DDR3200, your 3700X included: https://www.amd.com/en/product/8446
 
Jamin280672 said:
Just so you are aware, all AMD AM4 CPU's only support a max of DDR3200, your 3700X included: https://www.amd.com/en/product/8446
Click to expand...
Yes but they can run higher than 3200 with overclocking which is a feature of all modern systems.

Often, people run 3600 MT/s with AMD as that runs the IF in a 1:1 ratio which is the best (or often the best for most people unless you're happy with IF overclocking and so on) for performance as it reduces the latency between the CPU, IF and RAM.

Some overclockers have pushed the IF to 2000Mhz, allowing for RAM speeds of 2000mhz or 4000 MT/s and keeping a 1:1 ratio.

I think that the system as a different issue other than RAM speed which is why it's not allowing the RAM to go to 3600 but it's hard to tell without being hands-on with the system.
 
JollyJamma said:
Yes but they can run higher than 3200 with overclocking which is a feature of all modern systems.

Often, people run 3600 MT/s with AMD as that runs the IF in a 1:1 ratio which is the best (or often the best for most people unless you're happy with IF overclocking and so on) for performance as it reduces the latency between the CPU, IF and RAM.

Some overclockers have pushed the IF to 2000Mhz, allowing for RAM speeds of 2000mhz or 4000 MT/s and keeping a 1:1 ratio.

I think that the system as a different issue other than RAM speed which is why it's not allowing the RAM to go to 3600 but it's hard to tell without being hands-on with the system.
Click to expand...
Yes thats what I meant, just because it says 3200 on the CPU specs page, doesnt mean its limited to that, he was running DDR3600 on a 3700X, it should easily do it on a 5800X3D, as I explained in my previous post, I upgraded my Dad's PC this weekend just gone, he has the little brother motherboard, the B450 Mortar Max, and I had very similar issues, I explained how I went about fixing it.
 
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2Drunk2Funk said:
Appreciate the details response.

Just turned OFF XMP, as 3600 (or at least default settings) cause reboots and a reset to 2133.
Changed Dram Volt to 1.35 as suggested.
Manually set DRAM to 3200 (from @rumple9 comment re 5800X3D only supports 3200, at least it says that on the AMD site)
Set tcl from 15 to 17, trcdrd & trcdwr from 15 to 19, tRP from 15 to 19 and tRAS from 36 to 39. These match the memory settings (apart from 3600mhz)

Set Kombo strike to 3, from disabled. I hope that is the CPU settings you mention?
Not seen some of other mentions, nor sure where they are, like SOC settings and PBO settings.

Restarted between settings as suggested.

Will resume tomorrow as knackered and need bed!

Thanks again for assist
Click to expand...

To start, I entered the bios, press F7 for advanced mode, goto OC menu, set OC mode to expert, set xmp to profile 1, set dram frequency to 3600, goto advanced dram config and set everything to auto, scroll down and set power down to disable, gear down to auto and command rate to 1T, go back to the previous menu and set dram voltage to 1.35v and SOC voltage to manual then enter 1.15v, set FCLK to 1800, set UCLK Div Mode to UCLK/MCLK 1:1, memory fail retry to enabled, retry count to 2, save and exit.

If it posts OK, go back into the bios, go back to the OC menu, advanced DRAM, and enter your main timings, save and exit.

Enter the bios again, goto settings, AMD overclocking, DDR and IF timings, DDR frequency and timings, dram controller config, power options, power down = disabled, CMD2T = 1T, Gear down = auto
Go back to Infinity fabric and dividers and Infinity fabric set to 1800mhz
Go back to precision boost override and set this to enabled
Go back to SOC voltage and set this to 1150
Save and exit.

Finally enter the bios and go through the settings menu, andd enable things you want enabled like onboard audio, lan, wifi etc, disabled things you'll never use like serial port, fastboot, etc, then save and exit, fingers crossed you made it this far.

This is just a quick setup I did on my dads PC, hes not interested in overclocking or pushing PBO as far as it will go, you can always go back to the bios and fine tune things afterwards, but save you bios profile, there is an option for that in there so if you end up in a no post situation again, you can reset the bios and just load your settings rather than setting everything up again.
 
Thanks @Jamin280672 for taking time to detail your steps.
I have them noted on laptop so can attempt a little later. Work in the way now :(

Currently:
I have memory set to 3200 and 17-19-19-39 , Dram volts @ 1.35 and system booting ok (other change being the Kombo strike set to 3 from disabled).
MSI commander centre shows CPU cores at 3600 and dram at 3200 with idle (browsing) temp of 35-38c

I will look to save existing profile before attempting your steps.

Not tried game since making the Kombo change but before that I can get 1 game of cod MP map in before system crash. May try that first later to see if stabler.
 
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