Multiple mains double sockets not working - tester says missing neutral - how would it be fixed?

[MarcLister]

On Wednesday evening the bedside light I have beside....my bed didn't turn on. I assumed the bulb had blown so I then tried the other bedside light and that didn't work. Strange I thought but I'd had a long day and didn't want to spend time working it out at 10pm and wanted to get some sleep.

The next morning when I woke up and went downstairs I noticed that the clock on my microwave wasn't on. I started to realise the problem with the bedside lamps had affected more sockets. My toaster is plugged into the same double socket as the microwave and wouldn't work. Weirdly a double socket on the same wall in the kitchen works as my air fryer and radio both worked then and still do. I also found out that the double socket on the landing wasn't working either so I'd now got 3 mains double sockets not working. I ordered a cheap mains socket tester online because I couldn't find the one I knew I had somewhere. Predictably I then found it a few minutes after making the order. I used it on the affected sockets and they all show that they are missing neutral. I've then tested working sockets and they show the correct lights (left 2 of the 3).

I've messaged some electricians via Checkatrade to find someone able to come and identify the cause then to fix it. Is it simply a case of the faulty sockets needing to be replaced or is there some rewiring that needs to be done? I'm just asking so that I know what kind of scope the job will be. I don't want to get ripped off for a bigger job if replacing the faulty sockets will solve the missing neutral issue.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Your ring is broken.

 

[Penfold101]

Your ring is broken.

Bit personal…

 

[JBuk]

On Wednesday evening the bedside light I have beside....my bed didn't turn on. I assumed the bulb had blown so I then tried the other bedside light and that didn't work. Strange I thought but I'd had a long day and didn't want to spend time working it out at 10pm and wanted to get some sleep.

The next morning when I woke up and went downstairs I noticed that the clock on my microwave wasn't on. I started to realise the problem with the bedside lamps had affected more sockets. My toaster is plugged into the same double socket as the microwave and wouldn't work. Weirdly a double socket on the same wall in the kitchen works as my air fryer and radio both worked then and still do. I also found out that the double socket on the landing wasn't working either so I'd now got 3 mains double sockets not working. I ordered a cheap mains socket tester online because I couldn't find the one I knew I had somewhere. Predictably I then found it a few minutes after making the order. I used it on the affected sockets and they all show that they are missing neutral. I've then tested working sockets and they show the correct lights (left 2 of the 3).

I've messaged some electricians via Checkatrade to find someone able to come and identify the cause then to fix it. Is it simply a case of the faulty sockets needing to be replaced or is there some rewiring that needs to be done? I'm just asking so that I know what kind of scope the job will be. I don't want to get ripped off for a bigger job if replacing the faulty sockets will solve the missing neutral issue.

I’m no sparky myself but maybe check the wiring on the back each of the problem sockets then if that’s ok check under the floor where the wires off those go?

 

[MarcLister]

Your ring is broken.

Steady now! I'm not sure it is as, whilst I don't know how the electric rings are organised, I would assume that the two double sockets at either end of the wall would be on the same ring. One works, the other doesn't.

Bit personal…

Quite so sir, quite so!

I’m no sparky myself but maybe check the wiring on the back each of the problem sockets then if that’s ok check under the floor where the wires off those go?

I'd have to switch the relevant ring breakers off and I don't know which one is which. On the fuseboard it says "Sockets" several times but doesn't say whether ground floor, kitchen, landing etc. I'd risk turning my fridge/freezer off, and yes I could turn them back on, but then also my router and network gear. I'd rather have an electrician help me with this.

Also the mains double socket in the kitchen is above the work surface and there's no visible cabling or trunking that I can follow to check under the floor.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Steady now! I'm not sure it is as, whilst I don't know how the electric rings are organised, I would assume that the two double sockets at either end of the wall would be on the same ring. One works, the other doesn't.

The socket that works, next to the one that doesn't, remove it from the wall. It'll be burnt out.

 

[itsallaboutyou]

If it is a proper ring and not a Frankenstein ring / radial with random fused spurs all over the place, then realistically - the break could be at any point before and or after the socket that works.

It needs checking methodically to identify where the break is.

As dlockers says though - check the nearest sockets first.

Ideally you need to test the continuity - which would hopefully let you know where..ish the fault is - but if you’re unsure of the method - either YouTube or getting someone in.

Check if you have home emergency cover on your insurance perhaps?? Often find that’s the quickest way to get things done!!

But yes - your ring is broken.. but it could be something as simple as a loose connection.

 

[Reuben klang]

Steady now! I'm not sure it is as, whilst I don't know how the electric rings are organised, I would assume that the two double sockets at either end of the wall would be on the same ring. One works, the other doesn't.

Quite so sir, quite so!

I'd have to switch the relevant ring breakers off and I don't know which one is which. On the fuseboard it says "Sockets" several times but doesn't say whether ground floor, kitchen, landing etc. I'd risk turning my fridge/freezer off, and yes I could turn them back on, but then also my router and network gear. I'd rather have an electrician help me with this.

Also the mains double socket in the kitchen is above the work surface and there's no visible cabling or trunking that I can follow to check under the floor.

There is your answer then.

 

[sx_turbo]

Steady now! I'm not sure it is as, whilst I don't know how the electric rings are organised, I would assume that the two double sockets at either end of the wall would be on the same ring. One works, the other doesn't.

This means nothing unless you know for certain how the electrics in the house are wired.

Ideally a house would have 3 rings minimum, upstairs, downstairs and kitchen.

However depending on who wired the house or works done since and when it was wired this is not necessarily the case.

My mates house is wired weird and whenever I've done work to it, or a sparky has done work to it, it's always confusing to fault find.

His house sounds very similar to yours, 1 random sockets that should be on rings with other don't work. The very fact you have random sockets not working means that your house is wired unconventionally.

Usually a ring final circuit even if broken wouldn't lose sockets as both ends of the wiring go to the consumer unit..

So something is not correct with your wiring setup (sounds like as has been mentioned you've got spurs / radials randomly off existing circuits and will need a proper sparky.

Thread closed..

 

[BennyC]

First thing I'd do is isolate all the sockets on the consumer unit by flicking the breaker off and then remove each socket to look for loose neutrals or a burnt out socket. If obvious then replace before calling an electrician.

If you're not confident then call a professional and let them suss it.

 

[LuckyBenski]

I'd have to switch the relevant ring breakers off and I don't know which one is which. On the fuseboard it says "Sockets" several times but doesn't say whether ground floor, kitchen, landing etc. I'd risk turning my fridge/freezer off, and yes I could turn them back on, but then also my router and network gear. I'd rather have an electrician help me with this.

I can absolutely guarantee that the first thing an electrician will do is turn each circuit off one by one, and test which breaker controls which circuit. But understand the overall message is you'd rather have a professional look at this. General advice in the thread is valid - isolate the issue with trial and error. Looking behind sockets might tell you which direction wires go in e.g. from the kitchen counter double socket.

Thread closed..

Not really a thing, I don't get why people post this

 

[Deleted User 298457]

First thing I'd do is isolate all the sockets on the consumer unit by flicking the breaker off and then remove each socket to look for loose neutrals or a burnt out socket. If obvious then replace before calling an electrician.

If you're not confident then call a professional and let them suss it.

Spot on

 

[jpaul]

is the main fuse box modern with earth leakage , so you'd know if live or neutral going to ground .. if not risk that electrician visit may oblige you to have significant update
(folks estate has old boxes where I know any intervention might raise that issue - beyond me saying should really upgrade)

also don't yet own one - a wiring/stud detector but could help establish wiring locations/routing

 

[MarcLister]

If it is a proper ring and not a Frankenstein ring / radial with random fused spurs all over the place, then realistically - the break could be at any point before and or after the socket that works.

It needs checking methodically to identify where the break is.

As dlockers says though - check the nearest sockets first.

Ideally you need to test the continuity - which would hopefully let you know where..ish the fault is - but if you’re unsure of the method - either YouTube or getting someone in.

Check if you have home emergency cover on your insurance perhaps?? Often find that’s the quickest way to get things done!!

But yes - your ring is broken.. but it could be something as simple as a loose connection.

Thanks. very useful advice. I will check my home insurance documents - good call!

There is your answer then.

The reason I posted this thread wasn't about checking the sockets myself but getting some neutral advice on the scope of the job to get this working - simply replace sockets or is some re-wiring needed.

This means nothing unless you know for certain how the electrics in the house are wired.

Ideally a house would have 3 rings minimum, upstairs, downstairs and kitchen.

However depending on who wired the house or works done since and when it was wired this is not necessarily the case.

My mates house is wired weird and whenever I've done work to it, or a sparky has done work to it, it's always confusing to fault find.

His house sounds very similar to yours, 1 random sockets that should be on rings with other don't work. The very fact you have random sockets not working means that your house is wired unconventionally.

Usually a ring final circuit even if broken wouldn't lose sockets as both ends of the wiring go to the consumer unit..

So something is not correct with your wiring setup (sounds like as has been mentioned you've got spurs / radials randomly off existing circuits and will need a proper sparky.

It wouldn't surprise me if various sparkys have done jobs over the years and there's no tracking/record of what they've done. The fuseboard looks quite modern but there's no paperwork with it, or anywhere else in the house, to show when it was installed.

First thing I'd do is isolate all the sockets on the consumer unit by flicking the breaker off and then remove each socket to look for loose neutrals or a burnt out socket. If obvious then replace before calling an electrician.

If you're not confident then call a professional and let them suss it.

I might see if I can do that testing this afternoon. I might just turn all the socket breakers off then turn them on one at a time and see what comes back on so I have some idea of which socket breaker does what.

I can absolutely guarantee that the first thing an electrician will do is turn each circuit off one by one, and test which breaker controls which circuit. But understand the overall message is you'd rather have a professional look at this. General advice in the thread is valid - isolate the issue with trial and error. Looking behind sockets might tell you which direction wires go in e.g. from the kitchen counter double socket.



Not really a thing, I don't get why people post this

Considering there's nothing that says which sockets are covered by which breaker I knew any electrician would have do to this anyway. I'm starting to wonder when any qualified electrican last did a safety check on this house.

is the main fuse box modern with earth leakage , so you'd know if live or neutral going to ground .. if not risk that electrician visit may oblige you to have significant update
(folks estate has old boxes where I know any intervention might raise that issue - beyond me saying should really upgrade)

also don't yet own one - a wiring/stud detector but could help establish wiring locations/routing

It looks quite modern to me. I can take a photo if that might help age or date it? How would I know if it has earth leakage or would the fact it is modern mean it has it?

is the main fuse box modern with earth leakage , so you'd know if live or neutral going to ground .. if not risk that electrician visit may oblige you to have significant update
(folks estate has old boxes where I know any intervention might raise that issue - beyond me saying should really upgrade)

also don't yet own one - a wiring/stud detector but could help establish wiring locations/routing

Something like this? https://www.bosch-diy.com/gb/en/p/truvo-0603681201

 

[jpaul]

Something like this? https://www.bosch-diy.com/gb/en/p/truvo-0603681201

I don't know which brand - and had forgotten to ask the man from sky last month, when he drilled some internal walls recently ..
but, yes that kind of thing - I keep meaning to review rececent threads, perhaps delockers builds, on what to get

e:

How would I know if it has earth leakage or would the fact it is modern mean it has it?

mine has two clearly marked rccb breakers, saying what leaking current they would/have tripped at

 

[LuckyBenski]

mine has two clearly marked rccb breakers, saying what leaking current they would/have tripped at

I don't suspect an earth leakage/short issue as presumably no breakers have gone, just individual bits of circuit.

 

[Diggsy]

Wondering if you have a line of sockets all spurred off the main ring, as in that case, if the first one in this spur has a loose neutral, then the rest would all be affected.

May not be the case of course, just a suggestion.