Multiroom audio

[dsme]

Hi,

I'm moving into a Bharrat new build property in February and I am looking at some multiroom audio solutions. The property has been up for some time now, it is the ex-show home so can't have can't any cables run during the build phase.

Sonos obviously comes to mind when talking multiroom due to its ease of setup, supply power and bobs your uncle. Sonos can be loud but it doesn't sound very good from my brief experience.

I have been looking at pairing up Kef ceiling speakers with some form of amplifier (Daytona Dax66?) that would allow me to have multizone output and multichannel input thus allowing me to have some zones playing and some not as well as having a choice of the music source.

Going with the amplifier and ceiling speaker option would most likely sound better, be cheaper but ultimately more work and I am slightly concerned about sound leak into the upstairs bedrooms, especially since it's a new build property?

As it stands, I want the following all in separate zones. This would only be four zones but I'd like the room for expansion so I'd probably be looking at a 6 channel amplifier.

• Master bedroom
• Downstairs WC & hallway
• Kitchen
• Garden

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/dir/52k/51914/75729350/51914_28204902_FLP_01_0000_max_600x600.jpg

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If anyone has a similar experience or recommendations then please let me know your thoughts, Richer Sounds will be supplying all the kit.

 

[Jamauk]

Not sure if it would be helpful, but they have served me well for around 15 years now. Logitech Squeezeboxes, they certainly couldn't be new however they are regularly available on eBay. I'm not sure on their wireless capabilities as I've always gone the wired route other than the Squeezebox Boom (I'm currently using mine as an alarm clock) which may be useful as a device for the garden - Wi-Fi, decent sound quality and very portable. The Squeezeboxes themselves need an amp & speakers along with Logitech Media Server being installed on a PC, I have this running on a WHS2011 setup, they play MP3 & FLAC files, the controller software is somewhat outdated, but it just works, also very easy to synchronise them. Radio stations are available with thousands that can be searched for (also used with the alarm function).

All this might require a bit much additional equipment, but as I've said it has served me well over the years and if I were starting from scratch it would be my first choice.

 

[lucid]

The Dayton or any similar product is only half a solution. It's a matrix switch with volume controls tied in to some amplification. What do you plan to do about (a) the music source devices, and (b) controlling them so that you can select what music plays?

You see, the keypads and remote are very basic. In fact, the remote really doesn't do much apart from control power and volume and source selection. The keypads have volume and a basic CD track skip forward and backwards. This is like taking a step back in time 25 years to the '90s when a CD player and radio tuner were the music sources.

You're going to need a bunch of music playing devices plugged in to the Dayton's inputs. These will access web streamed music and possibly your own music library from a NAS drive. You'll also need some way to control them. Smart phones are the obvious answer, but tablets too should be considered. You'll still have to switch sources on the Dayton by either getting up and touching the wall-mounted keypad, or by purchasing a bunch of Harmony remotes and programming the IR commands. There's no feedback either to see who is using what channels on the amp, so there's nothing to stop someone else in the house hijacking your music source.

Beyond that, the next question is what you use for sources. Cheap = a bunch of Chromecast Audios just so long as you're not heavily in to Apple. The problem there is that the Chromecast analogue output is pants, so now you need an extra box and some wires per CC to convert from Optical out to analogue stereo: Messy, but doable.

Alternatives - Raspberry Pi - equally messy unless you spring for the cases; plus you have to build them and set them up yourself. Apple TV boxes - getting expensive for a hotchpotch solution but at least it's a bit more plug and play. Sonos Connects - now you're starting to get close to a proper multiroom system with a slick user interface and good source media control. Forget installing the Dayton keypads in-wall. Connect them up in the server room next to the amp and then just leave the amp on 24/7 and let the Sonos Connects manage volume and grouping and source routing. It's also equally at home with iOS and Android control devices - even mixed, plus you can now play music from those phones over the house Wi-Fi rather than limiting the quality with the bottleneck of Bluetooth.

Let's say you've spent 4 x £349 on the Sonos Connects + £800-ish on the Dayton. That's roughly £2200 on the head-end gear. Currently the Sonos Connect Amp is on promo at £399. Four of those would do everything the Connects + Dayton does, and deliver more power (2 x 50W/ch), and do auto standby so the amps only run when playing music which means you save on juice.... and the whole lot comes in at £1600.


As for the sound leakage, yes, it'll be a problem. There are products that are effective at reducing airborne noise, but you'll still get some breakthrough with sound carried by vibration. Have a look at Dynabox as a product. It works and fulfils the role of a firehood as well which is essential to add to any in-ceiling speaker where the room above will be occupied at any time.

 

[keylion]

With regards to sound leakage, I have ceiling speakers in a downstairs room and they were pretty loud in the room above. I boxed them in with two layers of soundbloc plasterboard, sealing the joints with acoustic sealant and the difference is huge. Worth doing if you can get the floor up above them.

 

[dsme]

The Dayton or any similar product is only half a solution. It's a matrix switch with volume controls tied in to some amplification. What do you plan to do about (a) the music source devices, and (b) controlling them so that you can select what music plays?

You see, the keypads and remote are very basic. In fact, the remote really doesn't do much apart from control power and volume and source selection. The keypads have volume and a basic CD track skip forward and backwards. This is like taking a step back in time 25 years to the '90s when a CD player and radio tuner were the music sources.

You're going to need a bunch of music playing devices plugged in to the Dayton's inputs. These will access web streamed music and possibly your own music library from a NAS drive. You'll also need some way to control them. Smart phones are the obvious answer, but tablets too should be considered. You'll still have to switch sources on the Dayton by either getting up and touching the wall-mounted keypad, or by purchasing a bunch of Harmony remotes and programming the IR commands. There's no feedback either to see who is using what channels on the amp, so there's nothing to stop someone else in the house hijacking your music source.

Beyond that, the next question is what you use for sources. Cheap = a bunch of Chromecast Audios just so long as you're not heavily in to Apple. The problem there is that the Chromecast analogue output is pants, so now you need an extra box and some wires per CC to convert from Optical out to analogue stereo: Messy, but doable.

Alternatives - Raspberry Pi - equally messy unless you spring for the cases; plus you have to build them and set them up yourself. Apple TV boxes - getting expensive for a hotchpotch solution but at least it's a bit more plug and play. Sonos Connects - now you're starting to get close to a proper multiroom system with a slick user interface and good source media control. Forget installing the Dayton keypads in-wall. Connect them up in the server room next to the amp and then just leave the amp on 24/7 and let the Sonos Connects manage volume and grouping and source routing. It's also equally at home with iOS and Android control devices - even mixed, plus you can now play music from those phones over the house Wi-Fi rather than limiting the quality with the bottleneck of Bluetooth.

Let's say you've spent 4 x £349 on the Sonos Connects + £800-ish on the Dayton. That's roughly £2200 on the head-end gear. Currently the Sonos Connect Amp is on promo at £399. Four of those would do everything the Connects + Dayton does, and deliver more power (2 x 50W/ch), and do auto standby so the amps only run when playing music which means you save on juice.... and the whole lot comes in at £1600.


As for the sound leakage, yes, it'll be a problem. There are products that are effective at reducing airborne noise, but you'll still get some breakthrough with sound carried by vibration. Have a look at Dynabox as a product. It works and fulfils the role of a firehood as well which is essential to add to any in-ceiling speaker where the room above will be occupied at any time.

Smart phone control of what is playing, volume of each zone and control of what plays in each zone is a must. I seen someone install some kind of module onto the Daytona amp to get this functionality but it’s hacky. I’m fully open to ideas.

I’d like the ability to stream from YouTube, Spotify, soundcloud and plex whether that’s from a audio jack which I’ll wire in the kitchen as a source, or from I guess Sonos connect itself as it can do the streaming and I’d probably wire up a chromecast audio but as you say ****.

What would you recommend if you were working from scratch of a ideal budget 1k stretching to 2k if necessary?

 

[lucid]

Smart phone control of what is playing, volume of each zone and control of what plays in each zone is a must. I seen someone install some kind of module onto the Daytona amp to get this functionality but it’s hacky. I’m fully open to ideas.

I’d like the ability to stream from YouTube, Spotify, soundcloud and plex whether that’s from a audio jack which I’ll wire in the kitchen as a source, or from I guess Sonos connect itself as it can do the streaming and I’d probably wire up a chromecast audio but as you say ****.

What would you recommend if you were working from scratch of a ideal budget 1k stretching to 2k if necessary?

Unless your standards are distinctly Lo-Fi then I'd forget trying to do in-ceiling speakers in the main living areas. With a £1,000-£2,000 you just don't have enough money available to buy even half-decent speakers + firehoods + sound insulation + amplification + cabling + cost of making good after the install.

Go with something modular and expandable, using free-standing wireless speakers in the main rooms and - possibly - a single-point stereo speaker wired back to something along the lines of a Connect Amp for the bathroom.

Lots of companies have tried to emulate Sonos. None so far have succeeded. There's nothing on the market that provides the same combination of quality and ease-of-use at a similar price point. There are products that are cheaper, but they're compromised in terms of performance and flexibility. There are products that are better, but they cost way more. For these reasons, I'd give serious thought to some Play 5s for the main rooms or maybe a pair of Play 1 if you want stereo. Add a Connect Amp and single-point stereo in-ceiling speaker for the bathroom.

Play 5 and Connect amp both have Line in. The Line in feature is accessible to any of the Sonos zone players, not just the one it is connected to. This means that a Chromecast Audio connected to the Bathroom Connect Amp will be accessible to the living room or kitchen speakers just as if it was connected locally.

For Chromecast Audio, but a simple >£20 digital-to-analogue DAC audio converter. That'll bypass the analogue out on the CC and get better quality audio from it in to the system.

 

[hornetstinger]

I've gone with separate systems in each room
Two squeezeboxes for home cinema and hifi and for pc.audio room, pc sources with avr.


Works well and each is indepeant, or two squeezeboxes can be remotely controlled