NAS with Mac and Windows - help required

Faustus · 6 Feb 2012 at 11:24

I know this question has been asked lots of times on the interweb but still not quite got my head around it.

Let's start with the basics - I have my iMac running Lion, I also use Parallels to run W7 as a VM on the Mac. I then have a Windows Laptop and the iPad. What I would like to do is purchase a NAS (thinking about Synology) use the NAS for Time Machine but also use it so that I can share and back up my data across both platforms including iTunes. I'm sure I will have to partition the NAS but not sure how many partitions I will need or which format to use on the different partions, except the TM one which will be extended journaled. Anyone done this, if so any pointers would be appreciated.

uniQ · 6 Feb 2012 at 12:26

I have a Synology 212j. Connect remotely from iPad, iPhone, iMac, Macbook Pro and locally from a PC Desktop and PC Laptop.

It uses its own volume format which it creates when you install a new drive. There is no partitioning everything is done via folders. Time machine just requires enabling the "Appletalk" service and choosing a folder. The Mac should see it no problem. Its a seamless experience for me and all my devices.

Faustus · 6 Feb 2012 at 12:53

uniQ said:
I have a Synology 212j. Connect remotely from iPad, iPhone, iMac, Macbook Pro and locally from a PC Desktop and PC Laptop.

It uses its own volume format which it creates when you install a new drive. There is no partitioning everything is done via folders. Time machine just requires enabling the "Appletalk" service and choosing a folder. The Mac should see it no problem. Its a seamless experience for me and all my devices.

Ooooooh! that's very interesting thanks. So no need to partition the drive at all then everything is just on shared folders. The only issue not resolved is what the W7 VM will use? One final point - how did you get your existing TM backup folder onto the new drive, simply connect old drive via USB and drag the folder across or something different?

paradigm · 6 Feb 2012 at 13:23

The W7 VM will use normal UNC file paths (can map drives if you so wish) to the Synology, can create user accounts if you like on the synology and only allow the Mac access to the time machine folder.

I connected my old time machine disk to the synology via USB and used the USB copy function.

Faustus · 6 Feb 2012 at 14:48

paradigm said:
The W7 VM will use normal UNC file paths (can map drives if you so wish) to the Synology, can create user accounts if you like on the synology and only allow the Mac access to the time machine folder.

I connected my old time machine disk to the synology via USB and used the USB copy function.

Excellent, thanks. I see OCUK has a number of these units in, some complete with drives. The only fly in the ointment at present is the high cost of HD's due to the situation in Thailand. I was reading only last night that world production is still only 70% of normal and that situation is unlikely to change before March at the earliest with prices remaining high for most of this year.

whiskycycle · 6 Feb 2012 at 16:21

I'm running a DS211j with 2x2TB drives mirrored.

One possible gotcha to keep in mind: I ended up creating a separate TimeMachine user account with access only to the TM share, then setup a quota against it.... when I didn't do that, TM started tearing through free space like it was going out of fashion, due to what I'm throwing around on the iMac.

Just my ten pence worth. YMMV and all that though.

Faustus · 6 Feb 2012 at 16:30

undergroove said:
I'm running a DS211j with 2x2TB drives mirrored.

One possible gotcha to keep in mind: I ended up creating a separate TimeMachine user account with access only to the TM share, then setup a quota against it.... when I didn't do that, TM started tearing through free space like it was going out of fashion, due to what I'm throwing around on the iMac.

Just my ten pence worth. YMMV and all that though.

Yes I had already given that some thought too. I got a warning on my present 750gig external HD only last night that TM wanted to delete a backup due to lack of space. One of the issues I had originally with Parallels and TM was that every time you even opened the W7 VM as it's a folder TM treats it as though the folder has been altered in some way and then starts backing up the entire folder again. You can get around this be selecting snapshots though again this is time limited so not ideal. In the end I stopped TM from backing up the VM and instead I now clone the VM about once a week.

I had thought about the WD Cavier Green HD but they seem to be getting something of a bad press due to the high Load Cycle Count causing premature failure.

whiskycycle · 6 Feb 2012 at 23:47

Faustus said:
I had thought about the WD Cavier Green HD but they seem to be getting something of a bad press due to the high Load Cycle Count causing premature failure.

Sadly, they're the drives I currently have, the 2TB EARS. Already had one go pop after less than 4 months.... It might say they're supported on the Synology site, but I'm swapping them possibly for Samsung ASAP.

memyselfandi · 7 Feb 2012 at 05:57

But isn't there a relatively easy fix for the high cycle count thing. I've got 2TB EARS (I think ... they are WD Greens anyway) in one of my NASes and have had no issues with them once I sorted out the constant spin down / spin ups.

I'm sure that I read about the fix somewhere on here (linking through to the Netgear NAS forum for instructions I think). There's a DOS utility from WD which allows you to change the parameters on the drives and one of the things you can change is the drives spin down time which causes the issue (by default it's something like 8s which means you can actually hear the drives spinning down and up all the time in the NAS). Before changing it the drives wouldn't even stay reliably mirrored, after fixing the setting it's all fine and have been since May.

Faustus · 7 Feb 2012 at 22:36

memyselfandi said:
But isn't there a relatively easy fix for the high cycle count thing. I've got 2TB EARS (I think ... they are WD Greens anyway) in one of my NASes and have had no issues with them once I sorted out the constant spin down / spin ups.

I'm sure that I read about the fix somewhere on here (linking through to the Netgear NAS forum for instructions I think). There's a DOS utility from WD which allows you to change the parameters on the drives and one of the things you can change is the drives spin down time which causes the issue (by default it's something like 8s which means you can actually hear the drives spinning down and up all the time in the NAS). Before changing it the drives wouldn't even stay reliably mirrored, after fixing the setting it's all fine and have been since May.

You are indeed correct there is a fix. However, what concerned me after reading quite a few reviews from buyers of this HD was that the fix worked for some but not for others. It is possible that the damage had already been done before the patch was applied but that is only me speculating. The real issue though is why WD are making drives with this constant spin up spin down cycle. Presumably it has something to do with being green and saving energy. However, it's not very green if the HD's keep failing and more have to be manufactured.

whiskycycle · 7 Feb 2012 at 22:56

/me sticks hand up again: both drives had massive spin down/up stats, fix applied, one drive in the mirror still went ping. Can't take the chance again really....

QNap equivalent of Synology DS211j outright doesn't support them.

Faustus · 7 Feb 2012 at 23:09

undergroove said:
/me sticks hand up again: both drives had massive spin down/up stats, fix applied, one drive in the mirror still went ping. Can't take the chance again really....

QNap equivalent of Synology DS211j outright doesn't support them.

Do you have good info which is the best drive to pop in one of these units for long term reliability?

memyselfandi · 8 Feb 2012 at 05:52

Well of course if you have been running them for quite some time so that they already have cycled many times then you still run the risk of problems. I was aware of the fix when I purchased mine so applied it before I dropped them into the NAS. I believe the spin down was set that way as they are meant to be desktop drives which could spin down and then not spin up again until needed. Using them in a NAS means they are spun up more often which meant they kept cycling. For me was a case of being to good a deal to pass up (the NAS in question was a Cisco small business unit which is an oem QNAP 259+ and was shipping with 2 free 2TB drives for £100 less than a QNAP 259+ with no drives ... which worked out as a massive saving)

But disks are pretty much subjective with different people recommending different manufacturers dependent on their experiences. Personally I use Samsung or WD but would never use Seagate as every one of those I've had failed quickly. Just make sure you have a working backup of any data so if a drive does go bang then you are covered. I would also make sure that any drive you get is listed on the compatibility table for the NAS you get as I do know people who have had issues in that area.

whiskycycle · 8 Feb 2012 at 15:14

Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of the issue at first.... Had been running them in a WHS2011 box for a few months initially, at which point I ditched Windows completely and went Mac! The drives are supposedly compatible according to Synology site, but they're definitely out for the QNap kit.

Drive-wise, I usually go Samsung or WD. Try and get them from different suppliers and batches as well, just to be a little safer.... Might explain why only one of these went belly up eh?!

Still, it's all experience isn't it?

OP: good luck Sir, I'd try Samsung at the minute if I were you.

CircleFaust · 9 Feb 2012 at 09:37

i'll be going the NAS route soon my self.
does anyone have their linked to their TV for steaming or otherwise? easy enough to do?

drive wise i'll probably go for samsung as they have always been good to me

btw, is the NAS easy enough to setup? i just want to transfer all my music/films to it from my old HDD, and use it for backups of my MBPro at the moment

Faustus · 11 Feb 2012 at 14:42

One question that does puzzle me with a NAS. With the Synology one sets up a folder share that can be accessed by a Mac or a Windows PC, if I have read what was posted earlier? Scenario - I do some work on a document I have accessed on the NAS "share" (doesn't matter if it's PC or Mac for this question - I hope). Now when I come to save the doc back to the NAS share, does that document only then reside on the NAS or does it somehow sync with other computers on the NAS and store the doc locally on the other PC e.g. my iMac?