Need Air flow suggestions

[Totally Dubbed]

Hi OCUK!

I was wondering what would be the best air flow through my system.

Here's my current setup:

-PSU is downward facing
-GFX IN-TAKES air
-Green at the back is the Antec 920 cooler, sucking air OUT via the radiator
-Green at the top is currently a Corsair AF120 sucking air OUT of the case, however I will be changing that to a AF140 (120mm vs 140mm, I want 140mm as it fills the gaps in the case)
-2x Red at the front are the Fractal R2 Silent ones sucking air IN
-Motherboard is the Sabertooth Z77 that has two mini fans on it, that ventilate the air in that sort of fashion - to the side and to the bottom.
-Side Panel hole is CLOSED

Here's how it looks like:



My questions are:
-Do I need to suck air OUT or IN from the top - what would you suggest? I feel OUT is better as heat rises and it wouldn't then conflict with the Antec 920
-Should I add ANOTHER fan by the GFX - this is where the side panel is, and where there is no fan there currently (closed)
I was thinking of another AF140 to IN TAKE air into the case, so that the GFX gets a little bit of help.


here's my actual system look at the moment:

Just in case you're confused of the direction of the picture:
The right side is the FRONT
The top side is the TOP
The left side is the BACK
The bottom side is the BOTTOM

Here's the TOP - where the AF120 is in at the moment.

 

[Totally Dubbed]

Generally I setup my cases with:

Front: IN
Bottom: IN
Rear: OUT
Top: OUT

I try my best to get an even amount of airflow in as out, make sure you don't have more airflow in than out as this creates 'floating' hot air. So keep your current setup but add an extra in the bottom of the case.

Thanks, but i can't do anything with the bottom. They are just vents nothing more.
I can however put one on the lower bottom side panel. But that's exactly where the gfx is.

 

[Totally Dubbed]

Bottom vent in your picture has mounts in it.

Also, your AX750 PSU is sucking air in from bottom unless you have one like no other.

I suggest turning top fan to intake and removing unused PCI slot covers. This will help supply cool air to radiator fan and vent GPU heat out back.

Right for the vent - yes it has - but I can't fit a fan in there - the PSU cables are in the way + there is a carpet - so it won't really help.

As for PSU direction - my bad

Removing the PCU slot sleeves -> bad idea I need it there, to help prevent dust getting in there as my PC is picking up a lot of dust from building work outside...

And why intake rather than out - considering the fan of the antec is taking out?
I'm curious

 

[Totally Dubbed]

iirc, with closed looped coolers, u get better results with cool air blowing into the rad from the rear of the case, then the top case fan will exhaust the hot air for u.

sorry I'm a little confused with that.
Your saying blow air in from the back...and blow air out from the top?

If so - then I can't really do that due to the antec.

 

[Totally Dubbed]

sorry what i meant was, to have both the fans on the antec sucking in air from rear of case. in push/pull
the theoty is, as they are sucking in cooler air from outside the case, the antec will run cooler, than if there were set up to suck in warm air from inside the case

ah well - antec + every review don't push pull....so unfortunately I'll be sticking to my understand of that one, in going OUT the case.

 

[Totally Dubbed]

Apart from my PCI slots - there isn't anything wrong then?
I'm just confused now, all these different things, and no one can give me a straight answer...

 

[Totally Dubbed]

Everyone has gave suggestions yet you have shot them down. Why don't you try different configurations yourself?

Not really...
Had one that says to put a fan at the bottom. Which i can't do.

Had another tell me to push pull the antec, but it's not designed like that, and isn't documented by anyone to do push pulling.

Had another to invert my top fan, but with no explanation towards it conflicting with my antec or not, considering they are right next to each other.
Finally, got told to get the dust covers off, but with the building work going on, that's the worst idea for me.

People have just ignored my two questions i posted in the op.

 

[Totally Dubbed]

Speaking of ignoring questions...

Because I have done - and I'm not quite sure what to go for.
I've gone IN and OUT for the top already - just not sure which would be best.

Look if you're going to be sarcastic, and un-helpful, please stop posting here.

EDITED.

 

[Totally Dubbed]

Your questions have been answered repeatedly by many members. I for one am about at the end of my lead with all your questions and apparent inability to understand simple English explanations. You replies often sound ignorant and rude. So maybe you should be the one who backs off and looks at what has been said. We are trying to help.

Talk about kicking gift horses in the mouth!

You do realise I was the FIRST person to give you advice right? *Facepalm*

I have given you suggestions (Along with other members) now get off your ass and try them out then decide for yourself. Monitor the temps and keep what is best, it's your computer so put some effort in yourself.

I'm out.

Gotta love the community.
Please show me the answers to my questions + explanations - I would love to see them. As for the time being I'm just seeing 2 people flaming me for asking the questions I had already asked in the beginning...

 

[Totally Dubbed]

I think your questions have been answered quite comprehensively.

What I do not see is what your temps are, which ideas you have tried and what temps you got doing it.

Even if you think some of the sugestions are a bit lame, the people are trying to help you which you should be grateful for.

Looking at your setup it does not strike me as a difficult challenge to keep cool so try out some of the ideas and post how you get on.

Hi there,

I have tried putting the fans like so:
-Top fan in
-Top fan out
-Antec in
-Antec out
-Side panel open
-Side panel closed
-Side panel air in
-Side panel air out
-2x front fans
-1x front fan

Things i haven't or won't try (either because they won't fit, or that it isn't recommended) are:
-Bottom fan in/out
-Antec push/pull
-2nd opening at top in/out
-Moving antec to other hole at top

Temps wise, I don't know what to really show - would you like a 100% load after several hours of p95? Because when I opened the case up the other time, after around 17hrs of prime, the case was hot - but the temps were OK.
(Obviously vcore and cpu were hotter than usual)

Cheers

 

[Totally Dubbed]

Post the temps you get after 3 or 4 hours of gaming for your CPU and GPU.

Prime 95 is not a good guide for real world use (gaming) where GPUs are also producing heat.

That's very true.
Well in that case - I would have to check fans, and their positions in about a week.
I'm still trying to get a stable OC - which is proving to be much harder than I originally thought (P95 just failed after 1hr @4.2ghz)

EWDIT:
Here are two pics I could scavenge from my OC thread:
http://imageshack.us/a/img525/5792/27602420.png

after 10mins cooldown:
http://imageshack.us/a/img405/7185/after10mincooldown.png

See the main concern is not to have heat floating in my case - that's it.
Thus the only real two possibilities I have are that side panel, and the top fan.

-Top is currently out, and that's because of my fear of it conflicting with the antec, if it were to go IN
-Side panel has nothing, because I don't want it conflicting with the GFX fans - I'm just thinking maybe if I put another one going IN, on the side, it would help direct air flow to the top of the case.

 

[Totally Dubbed]

You should really not be struggling to hit 4.2GHz on a Z77 board with a 3770k. What kind of voltages/settings do you have?

For reference I am currently at 4.6GHz on 1.25v Turbo on a Z77 ITX board with a 3570k.

Unfortunately bro - I am, quite lost in OCing it now.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18446658&page=3

Here's my thread on it.
Currently I'm using offset values - 0.05 was stable for 17hrs @ 4.2ghz
0.1 @4.2ghz failed after 1hr

I shall update that thread now with BIOS screenshots.

 

[Totally Dubbed]

You are using the Turbo offset right and not the CPU offset? No point in running high volts through it 24/7 let the turbo do the work.

I am using the CPU offset mate - I'm uploading a video with all my bios settings now.

By the way...Good guide here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1291703/ivy-bridge-overclocking-guide-asus-motherboards

Obviously I'm using an Asrock motherboard so the settings are different but you should pretty much guaranteed be able to hit 4.6GHz with moderate voltages no problem.

The Asus motherboards also have a good auto overclock feature, watch this video too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkGQhE1o2w

Hope this helps.

Hey - well the video for starters I have tried that, but the AI suite II really screws around. It ends up underclocking my RAM to 1333, and then giving me over-voltage warnings.

As for that overclocker guide - indeed it is a very good guide and I was reading it earlier today.
Thanks for posting it anyway!

Put one foot in
Put one foot out
put one foot in
and shake it all about.

No temps, no fan speeds, no comprehensive of what what were doing what in any organized test run for temps.


Kapstad, I hope you have more patience for ID 10 T Q&A then the rest of us.. You will need it.

:Runs away shaking head:

Reported - thanks.

 

[Totally Dubbed]

Here we go - the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPGoitXNVkk&feature=youtu.be

 

[Totally Dubbed]

fair enough, but its strange that Corsair recommend sucking in cool air from rear of case on their coolers.
and have u got the rear case fan fitted? if so, u already have it in push/pull as u have a fan each side of the rad
if u want, just try them that way, if not, then its upto u

Corsair? Could be a different way of doing it, possibly.

But Antec say:
Air should be going out of the case via the fans.
Thus from inside the case both the fans are facing and blowing outwards to the back of the case.
Remember there is 2x fans, one on either side of the radiators - as you said, but both are facing in the same direction (out)

 

[Totally Dubbed]

push pull means fitting 2 fans on your radiator... of course they both need to point in the same direction, one of them PUSHES through the radiator and the other one PULLS through the radiator

you are then kicking off and having a go at people and reporting them for trying to help

way to make friends

for best CPU temps you want cool air across the radiator, the way to do that is to pull cool air in from outside the case, if you can't even get 4.2ghz stable then it suggests that either you need to go back to basics and read some ivybridge overclocking guides, or the poxy little all in one piece of crap is running too hot

actually stating what CPU temp you are getting even after a few minutes of prime would help us to help you but whatever if you can't be arsed then neither can we

looking at your video you are only using +0.005 voltage... have you looked in CPU-Z to see what it is actually giving you? and have you tried increasing it?

what actual temps are you getting?
CPU, inside case, mobo, gpu... anything would be helpful rather than nothing

you also clearly have something screwed up on your PC, set everything to default and re-install windows

you've even looked on the asus forum and they tell you to re-install windows and you say "I'm not quite sure what to do"...

It's funny what you read on the internet.
Found the cause of the problem - again as I had thought right - it is due to ASUS's programs.
AI Suite II and its fan control service
Diskunlocker service, whilst the thing is uninstalled.

Friend came in, and we looked at the bios together.
Went through the reg and also went through the start-up programs.
Disabled, and got rid of the asus crap - hey presto, windows boots as it should have done.
If it wasn't for me installing the asus stuff that came with the CD - the irony behind that statement is ridiculous, sorry I'm just ****ed off at asus here.

Now for stable - people have different definitions of stable.
My definition was 24hr stable.
I can however run 4.6ghz for 2hrs on prime, no problems. But then after that start getting problems.
Some would call that stable (including OC guides) but in my eyes, 4.6ghz for 2hrs is NOT stable. Again depends on what you do, but doing video rendering for 1hr is as intensive as p95, if not more as it would be using GPU too.

As for temps - again I've provided a lot of screenshots on my temps on my mobo on the OC'ing thread i created.
Unfortunately the help I got, didn't really work out for me, and for the last 2 pages in that thread, it's me reporting my progress.
Why might you ask:
Because next time someone google's it, they can see my working.

As for CPU voltage, yes I have, I even went to a 0.9 offset and got a BSOD, just for the heck of it.
Long story short:
I found the best way to OC is to do it myself.
Seems like there isn't anyone out there with the same configuration as me (highly improbable there isn't, but highly probable no one wants to chip in)

I'm just going to do the OC'ing myself - and by that I mean, even with some people's help which I highly respect (like that OC guide) it doesn't fully apply to me.
Then there's always some people that will flame me for asking simple questions and tell me: "you have no idea what your doing, why do it?"

Anyway - I'm actually getting annoyed at people not actually trying to work on what I've got.
It's almost like you got yourself a new sound system, and you are wondering where to place the speakers.
Instead of someone saying, 45 degrees left and right, the person starts talking about the mounts used to put the speakers on the wall.

I can't believe 2 simple (or so I thought) questions led people to flame me.
Makes me not want to post anything more over here.

yes that is a push pull config the first pushes are in(through the radiator) the second fan pulls the air out(of the radiator) = push/pull config

i think u need to calm down reporting people for trying to help then pointing out your not giving any info to help is just plain dumb people will stop helping you and from what i grasp that u know that will not be a good thing for you but no problem and less hassle for everyone else this is a very helpful forum with many knowledgeable people, totally dubbed a lot of people have come into this thread and given u sound advice which u yourself have decided to either a. argue with or b. ignore and not do. one of your arguments being antec say not to pull air in from outside so u wont do it thats fine its your choice but im pretty sure chip manufacturers dont want u upping voltages and stressing the cpu more by upping clock speeds so not sure what your getting at as your willing to do one but not the other,personally i would try it it makes sense to me and would probably drop temps a little.
is it seated properly?,what paste did u use? what method of paste spreading did u use?

you need to give people your idle temps,temps under load for all we know u could be running at below average temps and you dont realise it.

personally i would get your temp situation under control before messing around oc'ing as you will generate even more heat.

35c idle
70c max load (current oc profile)

 

[Totally Dubbed]

That's the reply i was looking for Andy.

Thanks a lot for that.

As for the push pull and intake for the antec, when i had it in the other direction, it meant hot air was in the case.
What would you suggest, and sorry if this would be repeated, from others have said. What would you say about each direction of the two antec fans? Both facing in? Thus blowing into the case?
As for the gpu fan, would you suggest a full blowing fan, by that i mean at max rpm, or at its lowest rpm?
I'm only saying that, in case full rpm conflicts with the gpu fans.
As i don't know what effect a fan will have on the gpu, if any.

 

[Totally Dubbed]

a fan blowing on my 560ti makes a difference of 71c-66c. as for the speed of the fan i played about with it until i was happy with the noise levels.

Wow that is quite a difference!
Ok cheers for the help

 

[Totally Dubbed]

The Antec 920 operates in push/pull as standard, so I'm not sure how that misunderstanding came about.

According to the in depth Vortez review it works best as an exhaust. When using it as an intake it drops the CPU temp by about 2C but raises the ambient temperature in the case too much. So the answer to that one is leave it as exhaust.

The general consensus for best airflow is lower front to upper rear and with just the Antec 920 and two front R4 fans that would work ok. Improving this particular setup gets confusing though because it doesn't conform to the usual air cooling convention because the 920 is connected directly to the outside, so doesn't exhaust hot air into the case. In The Big Air Cooling Investigation they come up with two interesting points, don't have an exhaust fan above the inlet to your CPU cooler fan and the single most effective fan in the whole case is the one you can fit in the side panel.

So going a bit off the usual beaten path, I would be very tempted to try this:
1) Antec 920 as exhaust
2) Have both vents in the top of the R4 open but just as vents, with no fans attached.
3) Fit the 140mm you were going to put in the top into the side panel instead.
4) Leave the two front fans sucking cool air into the case

wow thanks for the explanation and analysis of the case!
Really appreciate it !!

For the side panel one that you were thinking of, would it be an intake then?
The top two vents, is certainly an interesting idea.
As instead of conflicting with the antec's operation, it would just be air venting through, due to hot air being lighter - which in all honesty - why I didn't think of what you suggested is beyond me.

I think I'll try what you suggested, as it really does make concrete sense to leave the vents open at the top, but still have an air flow from the front and side, pushing the air up towards these vents & the antec (if you mean putting the side panel as an intake, but from my understanding that's what you meant?)

 

[Totally Dubbed]

Yep, side panel as an intake, which helps keep the pressure positive and helps push the hot air from the graphics card around the case. You might want to add a dust filter for the side fan to keep things nice and clean inside.

side panel should have an intake on a gaming rig.

front should be intake
back/top should vent out

fans can be on the lowest setting to reduce noise

Brilliant - thanks lads!

As for dust filter - could you point me in the right way?
The case does have the metal grills.

I will do this right now - although I don't have the 140mm fan, only the 120mm fan, but that's no problem.