Need help - affordable Ryzen NAS-Plex server

[plonka2000]

So I'm almost at the point that I'm buying hardware to refresh my ancient Home Server.
I'm seeing a lot of good things about Ryzen 3 at the moment, but I'm pretty confused as to what to go for.

My use case/requirements:
- I'm looking at UnRaid as base OS
- Virtualisation within Unraid (Couple VMs and Docker, homelab stuff)
- NAS SMB/NFS storage
- Plex (Plex mainly 1080p transcoding, but looking to go to 4K in future)
- Lots of fast SATA storage ports (ideally 8 onboard)

I've got quite a bit of the basic hardware I can use from my existing server:
- PSU (Need to check, but I think its 700W)
- Case (large enough for 8 drives)
- Disks (Have enough disks)

Two of the main questions I have around this setup is CPU and Motherboard.
On the CPU side, should I go for an APU like 3400G and not need a graphics card or go for something more like a 3600 or 3800?
On the motherboard side, should I go for something in the X570 range or is something in the B450 range more than good enough? I've always in the past overspent on motherboards.

I'm also trying to manage the cost, if possible, so I think I need:
- CPU
- Motherboard
- Memory

I'm looking to maybe keep costs within 400 for these items.

I've been up and down the forums for a while, hopefully this will be enough to help a recommendation.

 

[plonka2000]

I've just built an Unraid box with a R5-2600, Gigabyte B450M-DS3H, 2x8GB. Added a passive GT710 video card so it would boot.

Added a couple of SATA cards for some more ports to allow me to connect 8x4TB HD, 1x800GB SSD, although that's going to be replaced by a LSI SAS card soon. Used the m2 slot for an SSD that stays unassigned in Unraid for some VM stuff. Performance of the drives, even with the SATA cards, is more than enough and I've pretty much the same use you're wanting out of the system.

Passmark performance on the R5-2600 beats out the 3400G and for things like VM performance too, and the difference in cost pays for the GT710.

That sounds like a nice board, saw a few reviews about it saying its simple and good. I like that.
With only 2 PCIe slots, is it ok, especially because you'll run out of slots after the GPU and LSi card?
I think I'd use the m2 slot for caching.

Don't bother trying to transcode 4k, Plex can't handle tone mapping and it results in a washed out image.

Hopefully I wont be transcoding at 4K, but I'd like the headroom for it or the other VMs if possible.
How has your experience been with 4K transcoding? I have a couple test files I encoded, but my current server falls over then trying to transcoding them.

 

[plonka2000]

Why transcode at all? Better to have a library that can be direct streamed where possible.
(And if you are looking at 4K content, better to just have separate 4K and 1080P libraries e.g. Emby lets the client select from multiple versions, assume Plex is similar https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/68721-movies-with-multiple-resolutions/)

If you do need to transcode however, GPU transcoding is another option worth considering, with even a Geforce 1050Ti able to handle up to 14 1080P->720P transcodes (assuming you bypass NVIDIAs concurrent driver limit).
Intel's quicksync is also worth considering, but you would obviously need an intel chip to benefit.

I transcode because I have content that I don't want to reencode, and transcoding works fine for that.
I also do a lot of remote watching when I'm travelling, so transcoding content for various devices works nicely.

It's a decent, solid board and a reasonable price.

I've currently got the video card in the bottom slot, as although it's a passive cooler, it wasn't the single slot passive cooler I'd hoped for and that photos on the rainforest site indicated it was! That's enough to get Unraid started, as the board won't fire up otherwise with the CPU not having onboard GPU. I'm not running VMs with video card pass-through requirements, so no need for a beast of a card.

Two 4 port SATA cards in the main 16x and the 1x slots, enough bandwidth even on 1x to handle playing media or pulling files off, and parity check on 6x4TB data (2x4TB dual parity) takes about 11.5 hours. The 800GB SSD is on the first onboard SATA port as cache, as the 240GB m2 card bottlenecked and filled with the amount of data I was copying across from Synology box... the Unraid mover process couldn't shift enough data from the cache to the 4TB drives quick enough to empty it before writing directly (and slowly) to the mechanical 4TB.

I'd throw in as big an m2 cache drive in as I could, for the reason above, as well as VM/Docker.

Seems like a good idea to get a bigger m2, not sure what I'll do there yet.

I'm wondering if there are decent boards under/around 100 that have 8 SATA ports and more than 2 PCIe slots?
I'll check Gigabytes other offerings and see.

 

[plonka2000]

I appreciate there is a lot of opinion on the validity of hosting your own home server here, but I really do need to rebuild my home server.
I stated my use case because I use it for more than Plex (IE: Homelab stuff).

I really am trying to find out if there are any recommendations for a CPU/Mobo/Memory combination or if I'm missing anything, or missing the mark on what I need.
With the recent release of Zen 2 Ryzen, the X570 boards seem to be an obvious choice for me, but I dont know if they are overkill for what I'm doing.
I do usually overspend when it comes to motherboards, X570 is generally more expensive, and is apparently higher quality from the ground up.

PCIe4 sounds attractive, but I understand that maybe its not that useful right now.
Upgradeability is probably a better thing I might want, especially as I'm buying new.

Any advice?

 

[plonka2000]

Who said anything about not running a local server? I suggested mounting cloud based storage as it’s unlimited and cheaper vs constantly growing local storage and pointed out that an HBA flashed to IT mode solves your fascination with onboard SATA.

Perhaps if you gave us some idea on anticipated usage eg IO/CPU/connectivity requirements you’d get a more useful response? Nothing you’ve said so tells us anything meaningful and the difference between you feeding 50 remote users who all need to transcode and hammering your symmetrical gigabit connection with SAB doing RAR/PAR work and a bunch of encoding sessions along with some game servers running in the background and pfsense/untangle running complex rule sets/analytics/DPI etc.

Nothing you’ve stated so far suggests you’ll gain any meaningful advantage by spending on a X570 board over any of the other options.

That escalated quickly. I'm just looking for advice, because I'm confused.

I use my home server for "homelab" stuff, which is mostly cluster tests for work, light development stuff, and sometimes offline transcoding.
I play around with Docker and VMs quite a bit on my ancient current server, but it struggles with everything I throw at it.

So... that's why I like to have some headroom, within reasonable cost.

The X570 thought process is because I'd like to have an upgrade path, but I'm concerned about heat and cost.

Plex wise you could at least try and give us some indication as to the number of concurrent transcodes you’ll be doing. As explained already, you don’t want to transcode 4K.

1. HDR>SDR tone mapping is broken.
2. HEVC hardware decode support is effectively broken in everything but Windows.
3. The software requirements to transcode HEVC 4K are obscene.

Here are Plex’ suggested requirements:

• 4K HDR (50Mbps, 10-bit HEVC) file: 17000 PassMark score (being transcoded to 10Mbps 1080p)

• 4K SDR (40Mbps, 8-bit HEVC) file: 12000 PassMarkscore (being transcoded to 10Mbps 1080p)

• 1080p (10Mbps, H.264) file: 2000 PassMark score

• 720p (4Mbps, H.264) file: 1500 PassMark score

Yeah, I read through the Plex recommendations, and seen them mentioned elsewhere in this forum as a decent yardstick for Plexy stuff.

I use my Plex and NAS server quite a bit, because I like streaming from home when I'm travelling, so it sounds like I better not skimp on the CPU.
Friends and a few family stream from my Plex also, so it can be unpredictable how many streams get used. Probably anywhere from just me to 4 at the same time? I don't let anyone stream 4K, lol.

Is the IPC gains of Ryzen 3 worth it, or should I consider to get a discounted 2700/2700x instead?

So in simple terms, my Ryzen 1700 has a CPU mark of 13774, that means it can do 7ish 1080 transcoded, but 1 x 4K SDR transcode and very little else, a 2700x can literally do 1 x 4K HDR transcode and it’ll still look like garbage. Even if it didn’t look like garbage, you’d grind the rest of your VM/dockers into the ground while doing so. You could go with something like the 3800x with just under 25k of CPU mark, but it would still look like garbage. The other option is GPU transcoding, Intel iGPU’s are arguably the most suitable/efficient for smaller servers, Nvidia scale better, but consumer kit is officially limited to two concurrent streams and HW decode is still officially only a Windows feature (it can be implemented on Ubuntu/Debian and some others unofficially). You can use modified drivers to bypass the stream limit of consumer grade cards, or use something like a Quadro (P2000 or later which supports HW HEVC decode and 4K HDR to SDR). If you really do want to transcode 4K and watch horribly washed out crap, then this is the way to do it without killing everything else in the process, but without knowing your planned usage it’s pointless suggesting which card suits your needs before you ask.

So, what you're saying is... 4K transcoding looks like garbage, right?

I'm not planning to transcode 4K, but I'll probably mess around with it at some point.

I'm more interested in upgradability and NAS storage, hence my fascination with onboard SATA.
For storage though, I could pick up a SAS card from ebay and go that route of course. If that, then I'd probably want more PCIe.

 

[plonka2000]

Morning, hope you guys had a good weekend.

@Armageus
The rest of what I have varies, I run a bunch of different virtualised clusters and workloads sometimes when I'm replicating work stuff.
Also, I develop and run apps in docker as tests, so it varies, but I'd say this isn't production stuff like with users putting load on. A couple of spare cores and 2-4GB memory would probably be more than enough headroom.

@Avalon
My connection at home is 500 down / 60 up, and I don't mind using most of it (Say 3/4) for streaming at the times.
I'd say about 4 concurrent users is my current usage, and that probably won't change.

I think maybe one of the reasons I'm also considering the X570 boards, is because I'll likely not change or update this server for a decade (As with my last server), and I'd like the maximum long-term upgradeability. By the time I look for a CPU upgrade, it may be 2030. lol
I'm definitely looking to try and max out my IO for disks where I can, to facilitate faster local networking in future.
AM4 is supposed to be supported into 2020, but they may release more chips after that too.

So in the end, I think I just want to future-proof myself by having a as-modern motherboard chipset as possible, and then got with something like a used 2700x. I will check ebay for such a chip.
I know it's somewhat flawed logic, but its the approach I've always taken in the past. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[plonka2000]

Hey, back from vacation and getting real close to a purchase decision.

Hey, I get that the CPU path right now is the same across AM4 boards, but that's what I mean by future-proof.
I think you know what I mean, it's possible/likely that at some point down the line it would be worth it, especially if I'm not looking to upgrade in the next years.
You're 100% right that there's no benefit to it at this exact moment, but I doubt I'll be changing it for another decade (Maybe CPU).

I was originally considering getting a 2400G or 3600G but, I've seen for a marginal amount I can grab a 3600.
It would have course mean that I have to get a Add-in GFX, but the extra 2 cores seem good for the price at 65W.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/amd-...hz-socket-am4-processor-retail-cp-3b9-am.html
I'm still checking ebay for a 2700X, there seem to be a lot of them around.

I've been looking at the Gigabyte Aorus ELITE for a board, but I'm not sure about the ECC support.
On Gigabytes site, it says nothing about it, but other sites (Including OCUK does)
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/giga...4-x570-chipset-atx-motherboard-mb-57w-gi.html

Also the ASUS TUF gaming non-WiFi claims to support ECC, depending on CPU, and also proudly has 8 SATA (Yes, I know, but then I wont need an add-in board). The emphasis on stability is great also.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus...4-x570-chipset-atx-motherboard-mb-6dr-as.html

Any advice on these boards and ECC?
Also, is there a recommended ECC/Non-ECC memory kit for 16GB or 32GB?

Thanks, I appreciate you guys taking the time.

 

[plonka2000]

Hey man, maybe bringing feelings into this isn't the best idea. I'm looking for advice, and I'm trying to think and sound things out.

There's really no need to seem so angry about it. I'm here because I came to get help. I've said manh times that I'm confused.

I get what you're saying about future proofing, and it's limitations, but what does it matter so much? I've also been a Gigabyte board buyer for a long time, used to be Asus, but I keep hearing they have lost their edge. My current server is an old Gigabyte board that has lasted the ages.

Look, I really am seriously looking for advice on something I don't do regularly. Advice doesn't mean that's what I have to do, but I'm asking questions so I can make a decision.

There is a lot of conversation happening about what I shouldn't do and I'm looking for some actual recommendations, so I'm putting some out there. Gimme a break.

 

[plonka2000]

I've not got any anger either.

I do have a clear idea of what I want, I put it in the first post. That's what I wanted to find out and discuss.

I'm trying to break down what CPU, board and Memory I need for this setup. I don't want to spend a fortune, but I'm also not looking to cheap out.

I stated around £400+ for these items, and that's no small amount for just those.

I didn't think that would be a difficult thing.

 

[plonka2000]

Quick glance across your OP I would say a 3700 with a B450 board, your choice of RAM depending on how much you want or will use and then you'd need a passive graphics card so it boots and clean up anything else with PCIe add in cards (extra SATA for example).

I appreciate I am not giving too much away in exact hardwares but you already sound to have your preferences so go with those if you're comfortable with them.

Hey thanks, I looked at the 3700X (Is there even a 3700-non-X?) compared to the 3600, and its basically double the price.
I reckon I'll go for the 3600 at this time, and be very happy with 6C/12T goodness.
If I'm going to buy a new board at this time, I really feel like I want it to have everything I need though, without needing extra cards unless really required.
A RAID card would be nice, but if I can get 8xSATA onboard, then why not just do that now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I run an Unraid server with a X470 motherboard and Ryzen 2400G. Got some old drives in there plus 3x WD Reds for main storage, with one as parity drive. A M2 WD Blue takes care of the cache drive element. 16GB of 8Pack 3600 DDR4 seems more than ample in terms of memory. If you want to go for a non-APU solution, I had the GT710 recommended - you don't need anything powerful, just enough to get the PC to boot as Unraid will run in headerless mode and you do all admin via the GUI from your client PC.

It works great as a NAS, Plex works great in a Docker container - as do Pi-Hole and many other useful Dockers. It runs 24x7 with Shinobi in a Docker as well. So many Dockers available, feel like I am scratching the surface of what is available - for example, would quite like to see what the Home Automation Docker is like

Shares to my/the Mrs Windows PCs over SMB.

If you want even cheaper to hit your budget, a B450 motherboard would do the job but I wanted more 'on the motherboard' SATA ports, for future expansion.

Hey thanks, this is almost exactly where I'm thinking.
I have been looking at getting one of the passively cooled PCIe1x GT710s also, as that frees up basically all other ports for anything I want in future.
Unraid is definitely where I'm heading, and I'm going to stick it out there for to see how well it works, I've seen good things from Unraid.
What you've described as 'on the motherboard' SATA is where I'm also looking.
Also, I run Home Assistant in Docker right now (in my old setup), to do my own extensive home automation, and I love it.

I've seen a lot of good B450 boards out there, but I think I'm going to bump the budget for a X570 and see how that goes.
I've also seen a lot of talk that a high end X470 board is roughly enough as a X570, but the dual m2 and PCIe4 makes me think it'll be good later.

I know I wont be doing any overclocking on this system, and I wont be getting a 3900X any time soon, but I'm looking at building as rock-solid a system that I can that has maximum upgrade potential.
I always have thought that comes from having a solid motherboard, even if the other components are lesser to begin with.