Need help choosing a monitor.

Z3R0-CooL

Z3R0-CooL

Z3R0-CooL

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guys i dont particularly understand the concept behind choosing the right monitor and i have a pretty gd PC hardware wise but i got a crappy monitor.

Can someone help me choose a good monitor with these:

- good for gaming.
- excelent viewing angles for Movie Playback

i got the SyncMaster 730BF and i am not happy at all with viewing angles and not happy at all that "black is not black" but greyish...

any ideas? looking into 20".. looking at stats the Acer AL2416Ws 24" Widescreen LCD Monitor looks pretty mighty good.. but stats only dont do it for me after i bought my current one..
 
Viewsonic 19" VP930 would be a good choice for viewing angles and black depth, but it's not widescreen. If you want widescreen then the Philips 200W6CS would be a good choice, or maybe the NEC LCD20WGX2.

The Acer 24" doesn't have a DVI btw.

You won't get a really deep black from an LCD though, especially if you use it in a dark room. SM730BF has a black depth of roughly 0.50 cd/m2 (brightness 300 cd/m2 divided by contrast ratio 600:1). Doing a bit of math the Philips would be about 0.375 cd/m2 and BeHardware reckoned the NEC could barely get under 0.40 cd/m2. The VP930 is about 0.35 cd/m2. The best I've see quoted is 0.26 cd/m2 for the SM970P, but that's not reckoned to be quick enough for gaming.

So you're looking at an improvement in black depth but not a huge one. All the screens i've mentioned should have much better viewing angles than your samsung though.
 
Price tag for Acer AL2416Ws is tempting, but essentially I would not recommend this monitor if you like good viewing angels, great colours reproduction/picture quality and fast gaming response. Also, Acer is using the PVA panel, and compared to the new generation of IPS panels it really doesn't match them in the terms of colour reproduction, picture quality and viewing angles. On paper, response times of Acer is rather good but in reality things are slightly different (probably because of the sluggish overdrive implementation).

If you are concerned about the black levels, fast gaming response and viewing angles ... I would not look further than NEC LCD20WGX2. Black levels are really superb and according to recent FiringSquad review, with the Advanced DVM mode measurable rate of the black level is around 0.20, which is quite good. From the perceptive view, it's even better in reality and from the LCD technology point of view this monitor will rather surprise you with the black levels. Some reviews reported that movie watching is so so on this monitor, but from my experience it's good & no major complains. All in all, this monitor may offer you the strongest package for the price tag.

Some interesting head 2 head comparison with the Acer AL2416Ws:

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=38&mo1=64&p1=701&ma2=52&mo2=95&p2=969&ph=1

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=38&mo1=64&p1=701&ma2=52&mo2=95&p2=969&ph=8

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=38&mo1=64&p1=701&ma2=52&mo2=95&p2=969&ph=6
 
fish99 said:
I wonder how FiringSquad and BeHardware got such different results for black depth? 0.20 is indeed very good.
Click to expand...
I think that Vincent didn't have a proper play with the monitor, especially combining the monitor profiles & Advanced DVM and "real life" brightness. As I already mentioned in the review comments, it's strange that he didn't cover at all Advanced DVM as this mode will give you so balanced colour reproduction and more pronounceable blacks that you have to wonder that LG.Philips 1600:1 panel is bloomin' important improvement when considering the progress of LCD technology so far. Firingsquad review addressed this positively when you look at the measurements. Unfortunately, I wasn't impressed so much with the review itself (when we exclude the NEC from the picture) as the concept of the review is "questionable" ... especially the "winner monitor
 
Just been reading that FiringSquad article, the DVM actually works by controlling the backlight brightness in realtime, so you're absolutely right, it really does do a black depth of 0.20 cd/m2 (0.24 cd/m2 with default brightness).

So combine that with what we already know about the speed of the panel, and surely this is now the best TFT around. I see what you've been getting at now :)
 
Z3R0-CooL said:
guys i dont particularly understand the concept behind choosing the right monitor and i have a pretty gd PC hardware wise but i got a crappy monitor.

Can someone help me choose a good monitor with these:

- good for gaming.
- excelent viewing angles for Movie Playback

i got the SyncMaster 730BF and i am not happy at all with viewing angles and not happy at all that "black is not black" but greyish...

any ideas? looking into 20".. looking at stats the Acer AL2416Ws 24" Widescreen LCD Monitor looks pretty mighty good.. but stats only dont do it for me after i bought my current one..
Click to expand...


you could also consider some 20" models like the Belinea 102035W if you want to keep costs down. The NEC and Philips already mentioned are certainly popular right now, plenty more info on them in the two massive thread in this forum :) You need to look away from TN Film monitors like the 730BF if you want wide viewing angles, althought luckily most of the 20"+ screens are based on MVA, IPS or PVA technology so you're ok there :)
 
Z3R0-CooL said:
so badass.. which one would you buy if u had to buy one?

would u wait for the nec or what?
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tough one really. If i was in your position then i think i would personally look at other models than the NEC. The glossy screen would put me off and is particularly troublesome for movie playback. Add to this the reports of noise and it isn't the best for movies that there is at the moment. No doubt it is a very responsive panel, but unless you were a very hard core gamer, i would question whether you need this very fast responsiveness compared with models which ar already very fast and well suited to gaming like the Belinea for instance. The Belinea is a very good price, and the panel is excellent all round. If it were me, in your position then i think i'd want to save a bit of money and get the Belinea. Still very good for gaming, no glossy screen so better for movie viewing....You could always wait for the Dell 2007WFP or even 2407WFP as the new gen of 24" panels sound promising and would be a nice upgrade in size :)
 
Yup, it's always tough when someone ask you for the choice as it's usually down to the personal preference. One note of warning though about the viewing angles, as he mentioned it in the spec. Not sure that he will be pleased with the Belinea viewing angles.

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=47&mo1=69&p1=753&ma2=52&mo2=95&p2=969&ph=8

Unfortunately, they don't have the Philips for the comparison ... but as it's the IPS panel I guess it's on the similar level.

I've seen one Belinea in flesh and wasn't particularly happy with the viewing angles. Also, not sure about the blacks ... and colours were so so.

Anyhow, if he wants to save some money maybe the Philips is the better option as it's not much more expensive. He will get better viewing angles for sure and it's fast panel.

For the glossy screen, well again personal preference and can't comment on that one.

For the "twinkling" effects in movie playback, I personally think that all LCD panels are suffering from this, some maybe more and some maybe less but as the general guideline you should watch the movies from the distance.

My 2 cents :)
 
i cant afford a 24" monitor. Wish i could. and the 20" is still pretty expensive for me.

i am considering the NEC one... i have seen the belinea as well.. wasnt impressed at all...

would you say that the NEC would be a good choise? my budget is <= £450

what do u think? when is the Dell one getting released? this month i read somewhere but no other info on it?

what are the specs for it?
 
hi all,
i have the NEC 1970gx and its absoloutly terrible for DVDs and games although it uses an 8ms samsung TN their is no ghosting but their are a lot of atrifacts and the screen is very 'blocky' when it comes to DVDs IMO
 
Baddass said:
the NEC is a very good screen, but i would say movie playback is perhaps its biggest weakness. The glossy coating may be an issue, but it is down to preference and your own llighting conditions. There is info and spec on the 2007WFP here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news.htm
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thanks.

so r u saying that its a weakness because of the glossy coating? or it just sucks for movies for more than just that? cause i usually watch movies it a dark/semi dark room anyways.. so i dont think that the reflection is gonna be a problem..

i dont really like Dell at all so i would try to avoid any products by Dell.

lets put it this way. for All monitors right now in OCUK even pre-order.. if u had 450 pounds.. which monitor would u buy if u wanted it for movies and games?
 
Z3R0-CooL said:
so r u saying that its a weakness because of the glossy coating? or it just sucks for movies for more than just that? cause i usually watch movies it a dark/semi dark room anyways.. so i dont think that the reflection is gonna be a problem..
Click to expand...

OK OK ... I feel that we need some guidance here about the movie playback on LCD screens.

Movie playback noise (or twinkling) exist on all LCD panels. Usually, such noise is dependant on the panel type and most importantly panel overdrive control. If you want noise friendly panel, probably the very slow MVA panels (at least 20ms) are preferable and they will do the job. Unfortunately you will have two side effects: strong afterglow & ghosting as those panels are simply not fast enough for fast action movie sequences. When you watch such sequences, blurring is visible, ghosting is persistent and it's usually presented as coloured trail of light. Simply put, it's not acceptable and effect is similar when you are playing the fast action games on LCD panel with very slow response time. This the major reason why I think that for the movie playback it's essential that panel is *fast*. As the unfortunate downside, overdrive kicks in with the faster panels and you are greeted with the movie playback noise. Maybe "something in between" and possible compromise are the faster 8ms MVA panels where the movie playback noise is less pronounceable (but it's still there). Now, with the MVA panels viewing angles are so so (and this is important for the movie playback) and picture quality/clarity , colour richness and viewing angles are simply not on the same level as with the IPS panels. It seems that with the new generation of the IPS panels (AS-IPS) some progress was made for the movie playback, but of course it's still again far from perfect (as for the most LCD panels around). One interesting thing about the LG.Philips 1600:1 AS-IPS panels is that they are supporting the 1600:1 contrast ratio with the Advanced DVM and when you combine this mode with the custom monitor profiles and brightness it's quite possible that you may minimise the twinkling effect and results are really surprising (as far as I can tell). Also, US models are already HDCP enabled so I guess that they are dedicated for the movie playback, that's for sure.

Now, you probably wonder where this is all going and if there is any logic in this ? Unfortunately, there is *no* perfect monitor panel for the movie playback. Simply as that. If you want dedicated movie machine with the excellent reproduction quality ... LCD TVs are probably preferable option for now.

Solution for the LCD monitors and movie playback is that you simply watch your movies from the distance. Even from 1.5m movie noise or twinkling is starting to fade away and it will be less pronounced and at the same time movie playback will be more enjoyable. At the end did you ever tried to watch your LCD TV from the close (like 1.5m) proximity ? I tried with my 32" Sony LCD TV. It's quite horrible (even with the digital TV channels) as the picture noise is present & persistent.

What can I suggest you ? Yes, if you have dimmed ambient light and don't use the monitor in *very* bright room, especially when the light is just in front of the monitor, I can honestly recommend NEC LCD20WGX2. You will not be disappointed.

If you are really concerned about the movie playback, maybe some of our dear forum readers who are already using the NEC monitor can help here and post their impressions about the movie playback. It would be probably useful to you more than my chit-chat from the above ;) As I already mentioned to you, movie playback was acceptable for me (especially after some monitor tweaking) but in order to have global picture maybe some other users comments are more then welcomed.
 
as igor has said, movie noise is an issue experienced on a lot of TFT's and none are really perfect. However, from a metre or two away, you wouldn't have any issues. Having said that, some screens show much more pronounced movie noise than others, and often on modern screens this is down to poor control of the overdrive technology. Samsung for instance have had a tough time with their MagicSpeed overdrive and the Samsung 970P and 930BF, while being fast, have unfortunately got some issues with excessive, or at least accentuated, noise in movie playback.

Viewing angles come into play as well, but there is no issue with viewing angles on an MVA or PVA screen really, especially if you compare them with a TN Film panel :) The IPS technolgy can offer a slighter wider field of view, but there's nothing wrong with the VA varients in this regard really.

All i was saying in my post above is that the NEC isn't the most suited to movie watching. True, it i fast, and afterglow is certainly going to be at an absolute minimum. However, it's glossy screen is reflective and some people can find this off putting, not only in normal use, but in movie playback. If you're in the right lighting conditions, then you may well be fine, and as igors has said, he has seen no real issues with it. However, ignoring the panel technology for a second, the NEC's OptiClear filter is not really ideal for movie playback, and a traditional AR coating may well be preferable. Add to this the reports that the AS-IPS panel shows some excessive noise and it isn't really the screens strong area. As has been said, this noise isn't really a major issue in the right circumstances, and most screens show some anyway, but it is more pronounced than some other models for instance. That was all i was trying to get at really. Great screen, don't get me wrong, but personally i wouldn't choose it as a movie watching screen.


if it were my choice of the <£450 screens on OcUK at the moment for movie watching i think i would really consider these:

- Belinea 102035W - good panel all round, excellent price. only thing that would definitely make me wary of this would be the questionable and variable build quality. Possible back light issues might put me off
- Philiips 200W6CS - user reports are excellent, but there isn;t much info around at review sites. I'd probably wait a little to see more pro reviews but seems a good screen
- Viewsonic VX2025WM - same P-MVA panel as the Belinea, good all round performance. Not released yet so we don';t know about the build quality, but VS generally make excellent screens. Might be one to wait for i think


once again, i'm not saying that NEC is a bad choice, you may very well like it. but for me, the glossy screen is probably the main deterant if i was looking for a movie watching monitor.
 
Baddass said:
if it were my choice of the <£450 screens on OcUK at the moment for movie watching i think i would really consider these:

- Belinea 102035W - good panel all round, excellent price. only thing that would definitely make me wary of this would be the questionable and variable build quality. Possible back light issues might put me off
- Philiips 200W6CS - user reports are excellent, but there isn;t much info around at review sites. I'd probably wait a little to see more pro reviews but seems a good screen
- Viewsonic VX2025WM - same P-MVA panel as the Belinea, good all round performance. Not released yet so we don';t know about the build quality, but VS generally make excellent screens. Might be one to wait for i think
Click to expand...

like someone mentioned.. i have seen the belinea and i wasnt at all impressed. The screen "bleeds" on the sides when watching movies with black borders.

since the viewsonic is the same P-MVA panel as belinea would it be expected for it to "bleed" as well??
what about the Philips?? what panel do they used?.. the viewsonic has been released... what you mean?
 
the VX2025W is not in stock yet here that's all i meant. The backlight bleed on the Belinea is down to build quality which can sometimes be a bit questionable on the Belinea models. Just because the VS uses the same panel doesnt mean it is subject to the same issues. VS generally make very good TFT's and hopefully there will be no issues with panel uniformity with this model.

It is unclear about which panel the Philips 200W6CS uses, the spec looks identical to the Belinea / Viewsonic, and is indicative of a P-MVA panel. However, Philips are involved with LG.Philips who make IPS panels like the older 200W6CS used, so it would seem logical for the new version to still use an IPS panel. There is no clarification from Philips sadly, but either way, user reports are pretty good for this screen. I'd like to see some reviews at places like THG and BH though :)
 
Well, if you don't like the Dell brand and you wasn't so impressed with Belinea, want to buy something which is in stock and already received positive comments from users and at the end want to save some money ... maybe Philips is a way to go. Next logical progression would be NEC, if you can stretch money wise and have a patience to wait for a new stock. If you really like good blacks, I'm sure that you will be pleased with NEC as blacks are great here. Of course, that comes with the price.

I really don't know what else to say. It's really hard that we decide for you. As you have all the parameters from us, maybe the best option is that you review again all our input, technical specs, user opinions in other threads on this forum and simply try to match them (as close as possible) to your monitor requirement specs and general thought "what is really important for you when considering the next monitor upgrade".
 
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