Need help with choosing a CPU/APU for a new rig

[aatu]

Building a new rig, but since I'm a little out-of-the-loop with regards to modern CPUs (/APUs), I think I need some help from the more knowledgeable people.

Thinking about max 150€ (~£120) for the CPU. I would prefer to support the underdog (AMD), but if the performance per watt is drastically superior with Intel, I will succumb to it, instead.
(I'd prefer the whole system to be practically silent when idle or low-load)

My current rig is from 2006 (GPU from 2009), so I was initially thinking of going with A10-7800, playing some old games I've missed and re-playing some classics. The integrated GPU is hopefully enough at least for the first installments of Mass Effect, F.E.A.R., FarCry series, etc. There will be some media consumption and internet browsing, although the main concern will be gaming, but only using 1080p 60Hz IPS (42" HDTV). No intention to overclock, and I don't have any particular need to achieve ultra quality settings, but would prefer to avoid low settings. I'd also prefer 30/40+ fps.

After a year or two, I'll purchase a "real" GPU (mid-end, with ~200€/£150). After another year or so, might upgrade the CPU, if it has become a bottleneck new games (and if there are indeed still new CPUs introduced to that specific socket).

Does this sound like a good plan, or should I skip the integrated graphics altogether? I do have a GTS250 I could re-use, but I think it was low-mid-end when I bought it in 2009, so I would hope even the APU's integrated graphics would trump it by now...? Furthermore, it's relatively powerhungry and creates quite a lot of heat and noise, so I'd prefer to finally put it to rest.

 

[Concrete]

FX8320e + CM 212 Evo + use existing gfx card.

 

[aatu]

Octa-core? Do the games support that many cores/threads? And like said, first year or two I will be playing OLD games, from 2006-2012 era. Also do note, I have no need for video editing or encoding, etc. By media consumption I mean I will WATCH movies (like Bluray 1080p).

Furthermore, the FX-8320E seems to be 32nm @95W, am I right? While that's not so bad in itself, but if I add the GTS to it (~140W), it's about 230W in total, already. Against the 28nm @45W/65W of the A10-7800, it's kind of an overkill? Especially when the FX+GTS combo would probably still lose in gaming performance, too? So indeed, I would REALLY like to put the GTS250 to rest. Currently, the GTS250 can't even cope that well in 1080p with the first Mass Effect. (when I was using it with CRT @1024x768, it was so-so)

If going with a CPU without iGPU, I'd prefer it to be a little cheaper (~£60/90€), so I can add the dedicated GPU at the same time without breaking the bank. For example, how about the X4 860K? CPUBoss stacks it pretty much the same as the 8320E, but with half the price? Or am I missing some important additional feature of the 8320E, would it be worth the price? If buying a GPU now, it would be something along the lines of R9 285. Alternatively, going for a low-end GPU (R7 250/260?) for the first year or so, then upgrading to mid-tier GPU.

Also, my current CPU cooler (Noctua NH-U12F) is quite versatile, both compatibility-wise and thermal-wise. Apparently supports most FMxx/AMxx and LGAxxxx sockets, so probably won't need a new one (unless going over 150W, which I would like to avoid, in any case).

 

[joeyjojo]

I would prefer to support the underdog (AMD)

If going with a CPU without iGPU, I'd prefer it to be a little cheaper (~£60/90€), so I can add the dedicated GPU at the same time without breaking the bank. If buying a GPU now, it would be something along the lines of R9 285.

Based on these requirements I'd recommend the FX-6300 and R9 285 (bought now). This is (and has been for a while) an excellent value for money pairing. You should be able to max any game at 1080p.

You could actually get a lower-tier GPU for older games at that resolution, like an R9 270, to save a few tenners. (It's essentially a downclocked 7870, which is still a perfectly good GPU in its own right.)

Even Tom's (an Intel-leaning site) endorses the 6300 http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-2.html Although the G3258 is also worth considering if you mostly play very low-threaded games.

YOUR BASKET
1 x Powercolor Radeon R9 270 TurboDUO 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £113.99
1 x AMD Piledriver FX-6 Six Core 6300 Black Edition 3.50GHz (Socket AM3+) Processor - Retail £83.99
Total : £207.58 (includes shipping : £8.00).

 

[Concrete]

Octa-core? Do the games support that many cores/threads? And like said, first year or two I will be playing OLD games, from 2006-2012 era. Also do note, I have no need for video editing or encoding, etc. By media consumption I mean I will WATCH movies (like Bluray 1080p).

Furthermore, the FX-8320E seems to be 32nm @95W, am I right? While that's not so bad in itself, but if I add the GTS to it (~140W), it's about 230W in total, already. Against the 28nm @45W/65W of the A10-7800, it's kind of an overkill? Especially when the FX+GTS combo would probably still lose in gaming performance, too? So indeed, I would REALLY like to put the GTS250 to rest. Currently, the GTS250 can't even cope that well in 1080p with the first Mass Effect. (when I was using it with CRT @1024x768, it was so-so)

If going with a CPU without iGPU, I'd prefer it to be a little cheaper (~£60/90€), so I can add the dedicated GPU at the same time without breaking the bank. For example, how about the X4 860K? CPUBoss stacks it pretty much the same as the 8320E, but with half the price? Or am I missing some important additional feature of the 8320E, would it be worth the price? If buying a GPU now, it would be something along the lines of R9 285. Alternatively, going for a low-end GPU (R7 250/260?) for the first year or so, then upgrading to mid-tier GPU.

Also, my current CPU cooler (Noctua NH-U12F) is quite versatile, both compatibility-wise and thermal-wise. Apparently supports most FMxx/AMxx and LGAxxxx sockets, so probably won't need a new one (unless going over 150W, which I would like to avoid, in any case).

The old games won't need multiple cores. But in two years time imo every game coming out is going to demand them. It depends whether you want to save money now and then upgrade in a couple of years.

I really wouldn't worry about the power usage, as it won't draw the full amount if you aren't stressing it anyway.

Keep your current cooler, if its suitable there is no reason to replace it. Maybe change the fans if they are getting old/clogged.

Definitely consider the six core CPUs instead. Although if low power consumption is that important I would pair one with a 750ti instead.

 

[aatu]

Spoiler

I became intrigued with the 6300 (~110€/£85), but it seems that where I live, it's mostly out-of-stock, and the places that do have it in stock, are keeping the price at 160€/£125, so I think 8320E (at around 150€/£120) would be more preferable, in that case?

BUT: if I'm going to go the non-APU way in any case, then Intel's offerings are quite a bit more attractive, unfortunately (more selection with MBs, too). I have a backup plan of i5-4590T (35W) (~200€/£160), and I can't see AMD keeping up with it thermal-wise. I could practically run it passively with my current cooler, all the while offering comparative processing power to the AMD's 8320E (95W) (~150€/£120), apparently?

Also, I'm not so concerned about the power usage itself, I'm more concerned with the heat output and the noise that follows as I have to get rid of the heat.

After a bit of reading, I got the feeling that AMD's desktop CPU plans are all over the table (old sockets, no confirmation which ones will carry on, even Carrizo was shunned), so no upgrade paths for the foreseeable future. In essence, the upgrade path seems more plausible with Socket 1150 than how it is with AM3+/FM2+, which is why I'm beginning to lean towards the i5-4590T. Or is there a better 35W/45W option in the market that I haven't yet stumbled upon?

Ps. As for the dedicated GPU, I'll ask around at the GPU sub-forum at some point, they should be able to pair up a proper GPU for my usage scenario. Initial findings suggest that the R9 285 is indeed the best bet.

Thanks for the help, in any case.

There's a longer reply I made in the spoiler, but I've revised by stance since then. In essence from what I've now read, the A10-7800 most probably won't become a bottleneck for anything below R9 285. It certainly won't bring as high fps's as the 8320, but it won't hold back the GPU, either. By the time I'd have to get anything more powerful than the 285, I'll probably need a bigger update, already.

As such, the A10-7800 should be perfect for my situation, a.k.a. cheap temporary solution with low heat output, which I can upgrade to mid-tier later. By saving on the GPU cost now, I can get a more energy-efficient GPU upgrade down the road, when I truly need it. Here's to hoping AMD will still introduce a superior CPU to the FM2+ line as well, though.

Thanks for the replies.

Ps. For people reading this and searching for answers: if you're looking to play modern games and have sufficient cooling (and aren't focusing on building a silent rig), then the 8320/8320E is indeed a very cost-effective option. The R9 285 seems like the perfect partner for it.

 

[joeyjojo]

Fair enough, enjoy!

Make sure to get fast (2400 MHz ideally, or 2133) memory, since APUs tend to be limited by memory bandwidth in games. Check compatibility with the motherboard.

 

[cheesyboy]

As a warning, GTS250 is about as powerful as the iGPU on those APUs. It wouldn't be a graphics upgrade (other than supporting DirectX11, which the GTS250 doesn't).

I'd go with using the GTS 250 with a more powerful CPU platform. Then upgrade the GPU later.

 

[pandem0nium]

The Kaveri APU is a good choice for setups where either space or noise is a concern.

It could be more useful going forward as more software makes use of HSA.

 

[aatu]

@joeyjojo:

Yes, noticed that. And to add an insult to the injury, the memory selection is somewhat limited in my country. Currently looking at getting G.Skill Ripjaws X 8GB DDR3 PC17000/2133MHz CL9 2x4GB (F3-17000CL9D-8GBXM) with one of the following

Asrock FM2A78M PRO4+ (65€/£50)
Gigabyte GA-F2A88XN-WIFI (95€/£75)
MSI A88XM GAMING (115€/£90)

The main problem with the FM2+ motherboards is that I have optical audio as a requirement, which limits the choices quite radically. With Intel 1150 the selection was more versatile.

More decision factors and contemplation inside the spoiler.

Spoiler

The Asrock would be cheap, but it also limits the RAM at 1866MHz (apparently overclockable to 2133, though). I could forgive the memory part for the price, but the general quality concerns me.

The Gigabyte has a built-in WiFi, is small (so I could optionally splurge to a more attractive ITX case, later on -- not that my current case is ugly, but it's big), and my current Gigabyte MB has lasted me for over eight years, already. I have a habit of honoring manufacturers for their good prior products. But there is also partial compatibility problem with the Noctua cooler. Still listed as compatible, but notes that "Cooler blocks PCI-E slot", which probably means it will only fit in horizontal position. But the planned memory kit also has a high heat spreader, which means the horizontal might be problematic, too (would have to confirm before purchase). Then again, if I'm at some point getting an ITX case, the Noctua might bring even more problems, and would have to be changed, in any case.

Then there's the MSI. More expensive, but pretty much the safest option, and the quality seems stellar. One review even noted how they were very pleased with pairing this particular MB with the A10-7800 and a 2133MHz memory kit.

If the MSI stays in stock long enough for me to order the parts, I'll probably go with that. If not, then Gigabyte.

@cheesyboy:

The GTS would go against the whole agenda of low heat output and silent operation. The GTS would even by itself siphon more power than the whole planned system, in total. Initially, I only mentioned the GTS because I anticipated that someone would suggest keeping the current GPU and asking which one I have atm, so I was actually trying to avert the options going in that direction .

As for GPU power comparison with GTS vs. A10: I hope that's not true. Looking at the benchmarks, the A10 gets almost acceptable scores with semi-modern games, pretty much in line with a discrete R7 240 (source: http://www.techspot.com/review/856-amd-a10-7800-kaveri/page6.html and http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2014/07/31/amd-a-10-7800-review/7 and http://techreport.com/review/26845/amd-a10-7800-processor-reviewed/4). Whereas my GTS is struggling even with 2009 era games (actually, after I switched to 1080p, even the first Mass Effect (2007) became unpleasant to play).

It could be thanks to the more powerful processor that's accompanying the A10, but all things considered, the A10 as a whole should be a noticeable gaming improvement versus my current system. And we're talking about a low-mid-end 2009 GPU against a low-end 2015 GPU. In six years, there HAS to be enough improvement to make a difference.

@pandem0nium:

Well, space is not a REAL concern, although yes, I would also like to have the option of going small . But the noise is indeed a BIG factor in my list. Currently it's like I have a leafblower masquerading as a computer.

 

[ghost.florian]

It might be worth getting an Intel i3 / AMD FX processor and a low cost graphics card instead of a single APU, if you want to do some more serious gaming.

There is nothing wrong with the APU your are suggesting, but it will not run games in 1080p unless you are happy with the lowest details. And even then, it's borderline:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-efficiency,review-33021-6.html

If your TV is about 3 meters away, you will probably be fine with lowering the graphics details and the resolution potentially.

How about this bundle:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-338-AM&groupid=701&catid=1967&subcat=1825

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-329-SP&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1866

(motherboard, memory and cooler less important - up to you).

This way, you can play all the latest titles now without having to worry about performance. In one year's time, if you feel what you have is not enough, you can upgrade your graphics card, and sell off the current one/donate it. With an APU, once you buy a discreet graphics card, the integrated graphics processor becomes useless.

I'd advise that it's not worth getting low end products anymore (in this case, GPUs), since their price/performance ratio is not great.

 

[aatu]

Like said, I won't be playing the latest titles for at least a year or two. I have a huge backlog of old games (2006-2012), in addition to the classics (<2005). The "serious" gaming will come after that, in the form of a GPU upgrade. The most demanding game I've played until now is probably the first Dragon Age.

The TV is actually my primary display device, and the viewing distance is about 1m when using mouse-controlled games/applications, but if playing games with a gamepad, then 2m away. My eye-sight isn't the greatest, but I do intend to play at the native resolution, if at all possible.

As for 6300/260X:
Well, I did find one 6300 for a cheaper price than before, but it's still an overkill for the first year or two. Performance-wise AND heat/noise-wise. Same with the GPU. That combo will create 95W + 115W, compared to the 45/65W total of the A10. In other words, the combo will create a 3x-5x heat output (and thus more noise), without me actually having the real need for it.

The main reason I was doubting the A10 was the lack of upgrade path. But as it seems that the A10 won't bottleneck anything below R9 285, I should be fine. If luck is on my side, the FM2+ might even get a CPU upgrade, at some point.

Just to give a quick list of games I'm intending to play, as an example:
Mass Effect serie
F.E.A.R. serie
Deus Ex serie
Sniper serie
Fable serie
Trine serie
Two Worlds serie
Borderlands serie
Dungeon Siege serie
Half-Life serie
NFS serie (if I manage to buy a wheel, not very fond of gamepads for racing games)
Elder Scrolls serie (haven't actually played even one, yet )
Magicka
Hellgate: London

That's just from the top of my head, but there's the ballpark. The latest sequels might be too optimistic on some series, though (Deus Ex, at least?).

I also do some lighter gaming, for example Braid or Child of Light. Will probably end up playing those kind of games during the catch-up time, as well.

Oh yeah, I will also be using a Linux variant as the primary OS, so the Windows-partition should stay relatively bloat-free, meaning a more responsive system overall. Windows will be mainly for games and Bluray watching.