Need help with wide angle photos.

thedoc46 · 24 Jun 2017 at 12:36

Looking for a point & shoot Camera that'll take wide angle shots. Not wanting to go crazy on cost. I'll go upto a few hundred bucks if need be, or just buy another LG G5 or G6 just for the pics, or even an add on lens for my iPhone 7 (though i will be getting an iPhone 8 in Sept) I know the iPhone 7 takes 16:9 pics, with a crop, but i want to avoid having to crop every photo, besides which it doesnt get enough info in the shot after the crop. Need to be able to take photos of mainly rooms

I had an LG G5 which has two lenses which was really really useful for me..

Here's an example of the super-wide pic taken on the LG G5 android, and you can see how much more info it puts in the pic. Though there's a little distortion/bend, its acceptable to me.

Here's my iPhone 7, using a crop of 16:9. No-where near the amount of info in the pic.

As you've probably figured, i'm no photographer... But i do have a basic understanding, that focal length is everything. However i went to a shop and played with some DSLR's that had an 18-55 lens. (which i would assume, at 18, would mean i'd get a whole lot more in the shot right? But the pics were 4:3 and didn't get anymore of the shot than what my iPhone gets.

Anyway just after simplicity.. To pull out a camera, press the button and it looks like what the G5 did.

Any advice for me ?

AHarvey · 24 Jun 2017 at 12:52

Does the iphone have panorama or surround shot? May be better than cropping.

Why not look at some software for stitching photos together? You can take multiple photos on the iphone in portrait and then stitch them together to make one large photo. Decent software will also account for the distortion you get.

I've an older copy of Autopano Giga that I used just yesterday to stitch 3 outside wedding venue photos together. I've also used it on a 20 shot pano of Yosemite National Park.

You can get app's on the phone to do this, a quick google shows up http://appcrawlr.com/ios/autostitch-panorama however, you'd be better doing this on a laptop or desktop just for the screen size and power.

If you're doing this from a real estate/estate agent point of view, the autopano software also had the ability to create virtual tours of locations, or you could look at VR/360 cameras.

EDIT: another option would be to simply take lots of portrait photos and just pay some one to edit and stitch them for you. It'd be cheap enough to do and would save you a lot of time.

i know nothing · 24 Jun 2017 at 13:05

thedoc46 said:
I had an LG G5 which has two lenses which was really really useful for me..

Here's an example of the super-wide pic taken on the LG G5 android, and you can see how much more info it puts in the pic. Though there's a little distortion/bend, its acceptable to me.

Anyway just after simplicity.. To pull out a camera, press the button and it looks like what the G5 did.

Any advice for me ?

No advice, but to help you narrow it down...

I note in this review that the LG G5 has 2 lens:-

The G5, unlike nearly all of its peers, for now, is equipped with two rear facing cameras: the default 75º setup, which uses a 16MP sensor and captures shots like any other smartphone in its class, and a wide-angle, 135º setup that uses an 8MP sensor for wider, more panoramic shots.

Clearly it's the 135º angle of view that you were using. You need to find a point-and-shoot camera that covers something close to that angle of view, assuming such a camera exists. My DSLR with a zoom lens set at 17mm has an angle of view of just shy of 80º (which is close to the 75º default setup on your phone). There's a simulator on Nikon's website that covers some of their cameras, might give you an idea of what sort of focal lengths you need to be looking at.

thedoc46 · 24 Jun 2017 at 14:51

i know nothing said:
No advice, but to help you narrow it down...

I note in this review that the LG G5 has 2 lens:-

Clearly it's the 135º angle of view that you were using. You need to find a point-and-shoot camera that covers something close to that angle of view, assuming such a camera exists. My DSLR with a zoom lens set at 17mm has an angle of view of just shy of 80º (which is close to the 75º default setup on your phone). There's a simulator on Nikon's website that covers some of their cameras, might give you an idea of what sort of focal lengths you need to be looking at.

So what do you reckon on just getting an add on such as this ? says its 140º do you think 140º vs 135º will make it too much of a fisheye effect ? or am i better off getting something like a 110º

AHarvey · 24 Jun 2017 at 16:17

The distortion you'd get using some cheap phone clip on lens probably wouldn't be worth the time you'd have to take to straighten it all in processing.

i know nothing · 24 Jun 2017 at 17:30

thedoc46 said:
So what do you reckon on just getting an add on such as this ? says its 140º do you think 140º vs 135º will make it too much of a fisheye effect ? or am i better off getting something like a 110º

I guess you could try one at that price and assess if it's good enough for your needs, I have zero knowledge of such products I'm afraid! I see on the Amazon website you linked to, a new LG G5 is roundabout $280, maybe one of those or a newer version is what you need. Were you happy with the photo in your OP? Is that good enough for your requirements? Maybe check/read some phone reviews to see what's what with their cameras nowadays?

D.P. · 24 Jun 2017 at 19:05

You say the wider angle image has more "info" but I disagree. Sure, the absolute field of view is greater as expected, but what this has mostly done is increase the amount of floor and ceiling that is visible, and that doesn't really contain any "info". What is more, the actual details of the room are now shrunk and much smaller within the frame to accommodate large areas of floor and ceiling. This means there is less information in my eye. Furthermore, there is very severe amount of distortion. If you corrected that then you would loose a lot of the apparent width.

It all depends on what you are actually trying to do with the photos. For most purposes, your second photo is far better. E.g., if you were taking photos to sell the house then the 2nd is infinitely better than the first. Very wide angle lenses are incredibly hard to use, really reserved for experts. Even then they are only useful in very specific circumstances, you need a lot of foreground and mid-ground details that you are trying to capture along with the background. Most scenes jut simply don't lend themselves to a wide angle perspective.
So my first suggestion is simply not to us a wide angle "to fit more in", it doesn't work. A wide angle lens is not used to get more in, it is commonly used used to get closer to a subject while maintain a certain background perspective.

the second suggestion would be to create a panormaic photo. Either from the smartphone or in post-processing using software. Having multiple photos stitched into a panoramic will increase the quality of the photo but moreover, you wont fill the frame with needlesly boring floor/ceiling/sky/grass/your feet. There will also be less distortion.

Energize · 24 Jun 2017 at 21:00

The distortion is indeed severe, processing in lightroom should greatly reduce that.

thedoc46 · 24 Jun 2017 at 21:45

D.P. said:
You say the wider angle image has more "info" but I disagree. Sure, the absolute field of view is greater as expected, but what this has mostly done is increase the amount of floor and ceiling that is visible, and that doesn't really contain any "info". What is more, the actual details of the room are now shrunk and much smaller within the frame to accommodate large areas of floor and ceiling. This means there is less information in my eye. Furthermore, there is very severe amount of distortion. If you corrected that then you would loose a lot of the apparent width.

It all depends on what you are actually trying to do with the photos. For most purposes, your second photo is far better. E.g., if you were taking photos to sell the house then the 2nd is infinitely better than the first. Very wide angle lenses are incredibly hard to use, really reserved for experts. Even then they are only useful in very specific circumstances, you need a lot of foreground and mid-ground details that you are trying to capture along with the background. Most scenes jut simply don't lend themselves to a wide angle perspective.
So my first suggestion is simply not to us a wide angle "to fit more in", it doesn't work. A wide angle lens is not used to get more in, it is commonly used used to get closer to a subject while maintain a certain background perspective.

the second suggestion would be to create a panormaic photo. Either from the smartphone or in post-processing using software. Having multiple photos stitched into a panoramic will increase the quality of the photo but moreover, you wont fill the frame with needlesly boring floor/ceiling/sky/grass/your feet. There will also be less distortion.

Top photo shows open floor plan that can been seen from kitchen and there's plantation shutters. Lower one doesn't do any of that.

Derek W · 25 Jun 2017 at 13:13

Just use what you've got and use this https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/res...ography-applications/image-composite-editor/#

Tysonator · 25 Jun 2017 at 15:37

I like the room ! ?

thedoc46 · 25 Jun 2017 at 18:49

Stitching isn't going to work very well, because the lens doesn't get enough in the shot in the first place.. Great for outdoor panoramic stuff, but inside homes, when you can only go back so far, is when i most need that wide angle.

Energize · 25 Jun 2017 at 23:14

thedoc46 said:
Stitching isn't going to work very well, because the lens doesn't get enough in the shot in the first place.. Great for outdoor panoramic stuff, but inside homes, when you can only go back so far, is when i most need that wide angle.

You take the photographs in portrait mode and stitch them. Even when stitching panoramas you would normally take portrait photos to maximize resolution.

thedoc46 said:
As you've probably figured, i'm no photographer... But i do have a basic understanding, that focal length is everything. However i went to a shop and played with some DSLR's that had an 18-55 lens. (which i would assume, at 18, would mean i'd get a whole lot more in the shot right? But the pics were 4:3 and didn't get anymore of the shot than what my iPhone gets.

Anyway just after simplicity.. To pull out a camera, press the button and it looks like what the G5 did.

Any advice for me ?

Why do you want 16:9 photos would be my question. Virtually no cameras use 16:9 sensors so all images would be cropped, 3:2 is the almost universal standard for dedicated cameras.

It would be very easy to recommend a high end compact/mirrorless camera with a wide angle lens, but 16:9 is the oddity here.

thedoc46 · 26 Jun 2017 at 16:46

Energize said:
You take the photographs in portrait mode and stitch them. Even when stitching panoramas you would normally take portrait photos to maximize resolution.

Why do you want 16:9 photos would be my question. Virtually no cameras use 16:9 sensors so all images would be cropped, 3:2 is the almost universal standard for dedicated cameras.

It would be very easy to recommend a high end compact/mirrorless camera with a wide angle lens, but 16:9 is the oddity here.

Really only because that top picture was taken in 16:9 on the LG G5 by default.. also when you think about it, most people these days never actually look at a printed photograph.. They look at it on their phone, or monitor all of which are 16:9. Its just more pleasant to see it fill the screen in its entirety than having borders on the left and right. I'm surprised that photography hasn't moved to 16:9 from 4:3, just seems to make so much more sense to me, given everything that will ever display the pic is now 16:9

voidshatter · 26 Jun 2017 at 19:14

Okey, I've been playing with wide angle lenses for some time, so I can share my experience.

First of all, angle of view depends on two things:

focal length - the shorter, the wider. For example, on the same sensor, 11mm is wider than 14mm.
sensor size - the bigger, the wider. For example, with the same focal length, 135 format is wider than APSC.

Secondly, most interior/architecture shots would want rectilinear shots, not fish-eye shots. When you correct distortion in post-processing, you lose some angle of view, because the corners are usually cropped away.

Given your budget limitation, the following wide angles would be hard to defeat:

Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 DC HSM for Nikon + any Nikon APSC camera body, or
Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm f4.0 Micro Four Thirds Ultra Wideangle Lens + any micro four thirds camera body;

Currently the world record is the Voigtlander 10mm f/5.6 Hyper Wide Heliar with any Sony fullframe camera body, or Canon 11-24mm f/4 L with any Canon fullframe camera body, or Canon 17mm f/4 TS-E with any 645 format digital back, but that's beyond the reach of your budget.

Thirdly, stitching is also a viable option, but with more potential trouble. You would need to prevent parallax when shooting, which is hard without professional ballhead and rail. It's also time consuming in post-processing - you'll need to learn how to use professional software such like PTGui and manually set the control points.

thedoc46 · 26 Jun 2017 at 19:57

voidshatter said:
Okey, I've been playing with wide angle lenses for some time, so I can share my experience.

First of all, angle of view depends on two things:

a) focal length - the shorter, the wider. For example, on the same sensor, 11mm is wider than 14mm.

b) sensor size - the bigger, the wider. For example, with the same focal length, 135 format is wider than APSC.

Secondly, most interior/architecture shots would want rectilinear shots, not fish-eye shots. When you correct distortion in post-processing, you lose some angle of view, because the corners are usually cropped away.

Given your budget limitation, the following wide angles would be hard to defeat:

Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 DC HSM for Nikon + any Nikon APSC camera body, or

Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm f4.0 Micro Four Thirds Ultra Wideangle Lens + any micro four thirds camera body;

Currently the world record is the Canon 11-24mm f/4 L with any Canon fullframe camera body, or Canon 17mm f/4 TS-E with any 645 format digital back, but that's beyond the reach of your budget.

Thirdly, stitching is also a viable option, but with more potential trouble. You would need to prevent parallax when shooting, which is hard without professional ballhead and rail. It's also time consuming in post-processing - you'll need to learn how to use professional software such like PTGui and manually set the control points.

Thanks i do have an old Nikon D50 body that can take the Sigma 8-16. Except the cost of $700 is a little prohibitive. Even used they seem to hold onto their value. Same deal on the Panasonic 7-14mm. Ouch

Energize · 26 Jun 2017 at 21:53

thedoc46 said:
Really only because that top picture was taken in 16:9 on the LG G5 by default.. also when you think about it, most people these days never actually look at a printed photograph.. They look at it on their phone, or monitor all of which are 16:9. Its just more pleasant to see it fill the screen in its entirety than having borders on the left and right. I'm surprised that photography hasn't moved to 16:9 from 4:3, just seems to make so much more sense to me, given everything that will ever display the pic is now 16:9

Rarely do people view a photo full screen though, more often photos are embedded into a web page or other application which presents information alongside the photo.

Secondly it's not 4:3 it's 3:2!

voidshatter said:
Okey, I've been playing with wide angle lenses for some time, so I can share my experience.

First of all, angle of view depends on two things:

a) focal length - the shorter, the wider. For example, on the same sensor, 11mm is wider than 14mm.

b) sensor size - the bigger, the wider. For example, with the same focal length, 135 format is wider than APSC.

Depends upon sensor aspect ratio as well.