Network gear in attic or airing cupboard?

[Wings]

Hi all,

New build house to which I am adding POE CCTV. I will be running the cables in to the attic space. Running cables between floors is proving problematic, but the attic gives me good freedom of movement - I can then keep everything within there or, go through the ceiling in to the airing cupboard. So I will have:

CCTV PVR
POE Switch
NAS

I can put them in the attic, which is currently averaging about 6.5 degrees and 88% humidity (no idea what it would be in the summer), or the airing cupboard which is averaging 27 degrees and 31% humidity. Max recorded is 28 degrees so it seems stable.

From a purely preferential point of view, I would keep them in the airing cupboard - I have no permanent loft ladder so access isn't great. But do you think the airing cupboard is too hot? It is quite large, approx. 2m x 1m, and has no ventilation. I couldn't add ventilation on the walls or door due to layout and materials, but I could create some kind of ceiling vent in to the attic space above.

Thanks!

Wings

 

[Avalon]

Realistically 27c isn't that hot, it's probably not going to be ideal from a longevity perspective, the issue is how hot it will get with the equipment in just recycling that air without ventilation, heat is the enemy in general. The other option being the loft has high humidity, while equipment is running (in effect self heating) thats not a problem, but if it isn't and you have condensation forming, thats not great. That's only likely if devices are left off for a while in cold/humid environment (extended power cut?).

 

[ANDARIAL]

Maybe install in the cupboard and fit a fan in the ceiling venting into the attic?
Not ideal but should reduce temps in the cupboard somewhat

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Maybe install in the cupboard and fit a fan in the ceiling venting into the attic?
Not ideal but should reduce temps in the cupboard somewhat

I wouldn’t do that, it will just suck all the warm air out of the house. It has to come from somewhere.

27 isn’t too hot, the attic will get hotter in the summer but it should also be ventilated. Just think about how hot it gets elsewhere. The main concern would be the temperature of the hard disk inside the NVR. That will be your lowest common denominator.

I have a switch up in my loft, I’ve not had any issues with it but it’s not POE either.

 

[ANDARIAL]

I wouldn’t do that, it will just suck all the warm air out of the house. It has to come from somewhere.

27 isn’t too hot, the attic will get hotter in the summer but it should also be ventilated. Just think about how hot it gets elsewhere. The main concern would be the temperature of the hard disk inside the NVR. That will be your lowest common denominator.

I have a switch up in my loft, I’ve not had any issues with it but it’s not POE either.

Ok fair point

 

[pepp77]

I used to have my equipment in an old airing cupboard, it was okay in winter, but got very hot in summer with the door closed. Door open allowed some airflow but not enough. I eventually moved my equipment to the loft, this was generally better (my loft is not very humid at all), but during summer I did have a fan on a timer to circulate air during the day time.

I have now moved my equipment into my office (its only really two small microservers now) and thankfully they are quiet enough to not bother me.

 

[fobose]

I have just put my synology NAS in my under stair cupboard (new ish build house - 2013) and the cupboard seems to stay around 21-22c with it running. The 3x HDD temps are between 37-40c (fan speed is set to 'cool mode'), CCTV footage is being recorded constantly. I will be keeping an eye on the temps over the next few months.

The best place for it would be my office as I had AC installed in there (the house gets stupidly hot in the summer). I have also run all my CCTV cables in to the office too. The only thing that puts me off is the HDD noise the NAS makes.

 

[the-evaluator]

I've got a Synology DS1815+ on my desk and the hard drives are fairly quiet having previously done the velcro mod. It's the cooling fans that make the most noise. I've got a pair of Noctua fans which I'll install at some point which should make a nice difference.

 

[fobose]

Thanks for that @the-evaluator. I have WD gold drives in my NAS and they make a clicking noise (common noise apparently for gold drives) so I am not sure that will fix all my noise issues. Perhaps I could put the NAS in a vented cupboard in my office as that might be enough to mask the noise.

Where it is currently located, the noise isn't a problem at all.

 

[the-evaluator]

Yeah, I can't see it helping with a clicking sound but it might be worth doing anyway.

 

[Jamauk]

I have in the attic a Unifi 24-250W and a HP N40 Microserver. It's in a cabinet, off the floor and whilst the attic itself is quite hot, with the door on the cabinet closed it in effect creates a micro-climate within the cabinet and is cool enough that I'm not concerned about temperatures. The only thing I have done with the switch is a popular mod of adding a couple of fans to the vacant spaces on the switch. I also have a UAP-Pro in the attic

I have a Dell T20 modified to house 8 drives (CCTV, Storage & OS (Win 10)), a USG, another Unifi 24-250W and another UAP-Pro, and a HP N36 (Asterisk). It gets hot in there in the summer but it has been okay for several years now, the Dell T20 is fairly cool inside and CPU temps are average. I cut out the fan holes on the switch to get the sound down as the Unifi stuff isn't exactly quiet.

The garage separate from the house has a Unifi 8-250W switch for 5 CCTV cameras, a UAP-Pro, HP N40L for backups (Win 10) 5 drives. Temps are fairly warm here, it is quite an open space, however there are two cars that also reside in there, it's more humid though and there is not really any insulation so hot in the summer, cold in the winter.

 

[Duke]

Considering the large swing of temperatures in the loft/attic as well as dust and fibres, if it was that or the airing cupboard I'd pick the latter. No space is any other cupboard or under the stairs etc?

 

[Wings]

Thanks all, this is really useful. Seems I am probably over thinking slightly and the kit will stand up to either, for a while at least.

Perhaps I'll split my kit out a bit. I like the idea of CCTV NVR in the attic as it's not accessible in the very unlikely event someone breaks in. I could put my NAS in the study and ethernet it to the wall, and then put a low profile vertical 4u rack somewhere else, maybe even in the hallway, so it is cooler and accessible.

No space is any other cupboard or under the stairs etc?

The reason it's not the obvious solution is that the under stairs cupboard (also where internet enters the house) is surrounded on three sides by stairs, as they curve around it, and the one remaining wall runs 12 coax leads, all the electricity for the house and phone sockets, all of which fan out across the wall and are stuck fast inside the plaster - so even with a cable detector I can't find a clear space to cut in to to route ethernet! There is one (cheapo cat 5) ethernet cable already running to upstairs so that's my only way in and out.

 

[Katie17]

Hi! our friends have it in the airing cupboard, everything works fine for about a year, if it helps you

 

[Wings]

Hi! our friends have it in the airing cupboard, everything works fine for about a year, if it helps you

Thanks Katie, I think it's worth me giving it a go and if it gets too hot there's not a huge amount of work lose moving everything if I need. I'll report back!

 

[Katie17]

Thanks Katie, I think it's worth me giving it a go and if it gets too hot there's not a huge amount of work lose moving everything if I need. I'll report back!

keep in touch) it will be interesting how you go

 

[pp111]

Hi all,

New build house to which I am adding POE CCTV. I will be running the cables in to the attic space. Running cables between floors is proving problematic, but the attic gives me good freedom of movement - I can then keep everything within there or, go through the ceiling in to the airing cupboard. So I will have:

CCTV PVR
POE Switch
NAS

I can put them in the attic, which is currently averaging about 6.5 degrees and 88% humidity (no idea what it would be in the summer), or the airing cupboard which is averaging 27 degrees and 31% humidity. Max recorded is 28 degrees so it seems stable.

From a purely preferential point of view, I would keep them in the airing cupboard - I have no permanent loft ladder so access isn't great. But do you think the airing cupboard is too hot? It is quite large, approx. 2m x 1m, and has no ventilation. I couldn't add ventilation on the walls or door due to layout and materials, but I could create some kind of ceiling vent in to the attic space above.

Thanks!

Wings

My attic hits 48 degrees in the summer. Really not good. At least the airing cupboard will be dry. What else does the airing cupboard have in it? Usually there is a heat source like a hot water tank, but even so my airing cupboard is a lot cooler than 48 degrees.

 

[WJA96]

My attic hits 48 degrees in the summer. Really not good. At least the airing cupboard will be dry. What else does the airing cupboard have in it? Usually there is a heat source like a hot water tank, but even so my airing cupboard is a lot cooler than 48 degrees.

Do you know your SAP score for energy usage? If you are picking up that sort of thermal change you would probably benefit from additional insulation. I’m particularly concerned about your statement that the airing cupboard would be dry. If your attic isn’t dry then you have serious issues!

We’ve had this discussion before ad nauseam and it really comes down to how comfortable you are with thermal loads and fire hazards. It’s fairly easy to work out the heat generated by the rack. It’s also fairly easy to work out what the temperature will be once it’s been running for a while. So if you have one 24 port switch and a decent router (Mikrotik RB4011 is a favourite of mine) then they’ll be fine up to about 50C air temperature.

After 50C they can’t effectively lose heat across the fins on their coolers and they will overheat and shut down.

So the calculation I’d be doing is for the volume of air in the airing cupboard, how long will it take for the equipment running to hit 50C and the whole thing shuts down? Let’s say the airing cupboard is 2.5m tall x 1m wide and deep. It’s almost certainly less than that but that’s 2.5m3 of air space (except it’s not because it’s full of hot water tank usually) so let’s say you end up with about 0.5m3 of air. Unless you’re in and out of that airing cupboard all the time it’s not going to be a great place for your IT kit to live.

As long as your attic isn’t full of old clothes and combustible cardboard boxes I think the OP would be be fine putting the gear in the attic.

 

[pp111]

Do you know your SAP score for energy usage? If you are picking up that sort of thermal change you would probably benefit from additional insulation. I’m particularly concerned about your statement that the airing cupboard would be dry. If your attic isn’t dry then you have serious issues!

That temperature is pretty normal for a house in the UK in the summer. Damp is not a permanent thing but can happen when there are temperature and humidity swings. Again, pretty normal. Also, depending on the construction, a wall close to the roof can give off water vapour during sustained rain ( like we have had in the past ten years or so! ). This normally doesn't cause an issue but it most certainly would cause a problem if there was any electronics close by. It's largely an issue because these spaces are not heated in the winter. I grant you that it's all a matter of circumstance, but I wouldn't like to take the risk with all that expensive stuff in a highly variable space.