New AVR needed as current doesn't support HDCP 2.2 - Budget £600-800

firstborn

firstborn

firstborn

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Hi,

Following a recent house move and upgrade of TV to LG 65CX - I'd just found the time to set-up speakers (7.1 Q Acoustics 3010/3020 + Dali sub) and AVR (DENON AVRX-5200) - hadn't given it a second thought but then realised that I can't route Sky UHD through it as it's not HDCP2.2 compliant. I also have a Panasonic DP-UB820

As an interim I'm using Sky Q into TV and Sky Q audio into amp via optical, but I think it's time to update the AVR.

I was fortunate to get the AVRX-5200 at a really good price at the time, but budget will be more conservative now at around £600-800.

Any recommendations? Thoughts on the DENON AVR-X2700H?

Thanks
 
MrRockliffe said:
What about using ARC to get audio, then plugging everything into the TV for the time being?

In the meanwhile, save for a better AVR.
Click to expand...

AVR doesn't support ARC either - or maybe it does... spec sheet said no, but it appears to have an ARC/HDMI connector. I think I'll go with that if it does. Thanks.

hornetstinger said:
Issue with hdmi 2.1/2.2 as need add on box.

Leave it another gen for hdmi 2.1
Click to expand...

No idea what that means, sorry.
 
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MrRockliffe said:
What about using ARC to get audio, then plugging everything into the TV for the time being?

In the meanwhile, save for a better AVR.
Click to expand...

So SKY UHD up and running over ARC, with some surround audio success. Blu-ray player, due to limited bandwidth over ARC will only give me stereo - AVR doesn't support eARC, or I go through AVR and it's limited to 1080p with full audio.

Time for a new amp!
 
In which case I'd probably see if you can get hold of a second hand T758 V3.

It's by no means perfect, but you'll have the ability to run DIRAC with it too.

Or wait until HDMI 2.1 receivers aren't broken.
 
I'm in a similar situation, using a 55B9 with a series X but I wanted to use the built in netflix/prime on the TV. ARC wouldn't work at all on my amp (sclx86) so I'm using optical out from the TV to the amp. To get 5.1 it has to be optical only out and not TV speaker plus optical as that only feeds stereo.
 
firstborn said:
So SKY UHD up and running over ARC, with some surround audio success. Blu-ray player, due to limited bandwidth over ARC will only give me stereo - AVR doesn't support eARC, or I go through AVR and it's limited to 1080p with full audio.

Time for a new amp!
Click to expand...

The Pana 820 has two sets of HDMI out. One of them is for an Audio Out via-HDMI connection direct to an AV receiver that doesn't pass full fat 4K picture. *** This describes your situation exactly ***

Send full fat 4K direct to the TV from HDMI 1 on the 820.

Send audio only in Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio direct to the amp from HDMI 2 on the 820.

Problem solved.
 
firstborn said:
Thoughts on the DENON AVR-X2700H?
Click to expand...

I picked one up about a month ago after my Yamaha amp died on me. I'd never consider myself any kind of audiophile but it's a great amp, plenty of features and sounds great. Mine's hooked up to my 65C9 and it all works nicely.
 
lucid said:
The Pana 820 has two sets of HDMI out. One of them is for an Audio Out via-HDMI connection direct to an AV receiver that doesn't pass full fat 4K picture. *** This describes your situation exactly ***

Send full fat 4K direct to the TV from HDMI 1 on the 820.

Send audio only in Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio direct to the amp from HDMI 2 on the 820.

Problem solved.
Click to expand...

Ohhh, ffs! Thanks! And I mean THANKS!! :)
 
What's your issue op? I've got a 2200 (same gen as yours I think), and sky q goes through that fine (at 4k/10 bit). Just done some research so I see your issue. I'm still confused as I'd have thought that our amps would be the same gen.
 
For any casual readers here who are wondering what the issue is in relation to the comment by @theone8181 regarding 4K/10bit for Sky. The Denon amp doesn't support Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG). This is how Sky sends HDR signals for any UHD content with a bigger colour palette than the standard 8-bit used for SD (576i) and HD (1080i) broadcasts.

The AVR-X5200 does have support for something called Deep Colour, and it has that in both 10-bit (1024 steps) and 12-bit (4096 steps) versions, but that's not the same as HLG or HDR10 or Dolby Vision.

Deep Color / Deep Colour works within the boundaries of the colour range defined by the 8-bit colour system, but it has the potential to use more steps in order to reduce colour banding. This would reduce the steps in colour you might see in a black to dark blue graduated background.

HLG, HDR10 and Dolby Vision all use a bigger colour range, so although we talk about 10-bit and 12-bit colour for these systems, the positions of red and green and blue are spread much further apart with the UHD colour range than with HD. This is why the AVR-X5200 can work with Deep Colour but can't pass HLG, HDR10 and Dolby Vision.

Devices with HDMI sockets uses a communication handshake to set a common set of standards between all the devices in the chain. For example, if I try to set up a BD player with 24 frames per second output with a TV that doesn't support it, I'll either get a message as such, or the player will default to 50Hz / 60Hz playback and ignore my preference. The same would happen if I tried to set HLG as an output option where some device in the video chain going to the display didn't support that standard.

Sky's implementation of UHD 4K and HLG doesn't help matters. The Q box can be set to 2160p (UHD) which simply means it's upscaling all non-UHD content to the UHD resolution. In theory, a user could have the box set to UHD output but never watch any real UHD content because they don't have the right subscription package to access anything better than SD and HD 1080i.

Access to HLG is also dependent on the subscription package and the content. The Q box setting is 10-bit, but unless playing a downloaded UHD-res film with HLG, or watching a premium UHD sports channel, then the box will never output a HLG-enhanced video signal.
 
lucid said:
For any casual readers here who are wondering what the issue is in relation to the comment by @theone8181 regarding 4K/10bit for Sky. The Denon amp doesn't support Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG). This is how Sky sends HDR signals for any UHD content with a bigger colour palette than the standard 8-bit used for SD (576i) and HD (1080i) broadcasts.

The AVR-X5200 does have support for something called Deep Colour, and it has that in both 10-bit (1024 steps) and 12-bit (4096 steps) versions, but that's not the same as HLG or HDR10 or Dolby Vision.

Deep Color / Deep Colour works within the boundaries of the colour range defined by the 8-bit colour system, but it has the potential to use more steps in order to reduce colour banding. This would reduce the steps in colour you might see in a black to dark blue graduated background.

HLG, HDR10 and Dolby Vision all use a bigger colour range, so although we talk about 10-bit and 12-bit colour for these systems, the positions of red and green and blue are spread much further apart with the UHD colour range than with HD. This is why the AVR-X5200 can work with Deep Colour but can't pass HLG, HDR10 and Dolby Vision.

Devices with HDMI sockets uses a communication handshake to set a common set of standards between all the devices in the chain. For example, if I try to set up a BD player with 24 frames per second output with a TV that doesn't support it, I'll either get a message as such, or the player will default to 50Hz / 60Hz playback and ignore my preference. The same would happen if I tried to set HLG as an output option where some device in the video chain going to the display didn't support that standard.

Sky's implementation of UHD 4K and HLG doesn't help matters. The Q box can be set to 2160p (UHD) which simply means it's upscaling all non-UHD content to the UHD resolution. In theory, a user could have the box set to UHD output but never watch any real UHD content because they don't have the right subscription package to access anything better than SD and HD 1080i.

Access to HLG is also dependent on the subscription package and the content. The Q box setting is 10-bit, but unless playing a downloaded UHD-res film with HLG, or watching a premium UHD sports channel, then the box will never output a HLG-enhanced video signal.
Click to expand...

@lucid so where does HDCP come into all this? I assumed all my problems where related to the 5200 only being HDCP2.1 and @theone8181 seems to have a HDCP2.2 compliant AVR.

If I did buy a new amp that states 'HDMI: Dolby Vision / HDR 10+ / Dynamic HDR / HLG' and HDCP2.3 compliant - would all source work through the AVR properly and hence single cable to TV?

Thanks
 
I'm not yet convinced that the receiver @theone8181 has is getting a signal that pushes up to HDCP2.2 spec. It needs some more clarification.

There's a list of HLG-, HDR10- and Dolby Vision compatible receivers on the Denon web site. Here's a link: HDR FORMAT COMPATIBILITY (denon.com)

If you did change the receiver - and bearing in mind that it only comes in to play with specific standards of HDR - then yes, just one cable to the TV.
 
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Just to update, I can't actually watch hdr through sky via my receiver, although I've not tried direct to TV. I assumed as my TV is from before hdr was finalised (although doesn't do a bad job on ps4 games). Its a Samsung so only has one hdr hdmi:rolleyes: so that's why I use the amp. If I've got a long enough hdmi cable I'll try it direct. TV standards are such a minefield. Mine is on that list as supporting it, 2200w.
 
theone8181 said:
Just to update, I can't actually watch hdr through sky via my receiver, although I've not tried direct to TV. I assumed as my TV is from before hdr was finalised (although doesn't do a bad job on ps4 games). Its a Samsung so only has one hdr hdmi:rolleyes: so that's why I use the amp. If I've got a long enough hdmi cable I'll try it direct. TV standards are such a minefield. Mine is on that list as supporting it, 2200w.
Click to expand...
Although from the same era, yours isn't the same model as @firstborn 's (not that you ever said it was), but you've kind of presumed "same era / same features" which is sort of understandable but in this case it doesn't follow so neatly. That's not surprising when you consider the differences in the chassis and of course the cost.

The higher-end receivers probably represent a bigger R&D spend but a smaller volume of sales due to the price, and so the chassis has to last longer; hence why the £1700 5200 didnt yet receive the HDR features.

There are a lot more buyers for a £500 AVR, and that segment of the market is more competitive and very focused on features. It would be reasonable then to presume that any new chassis development will be fairly short-lived for this kind of amp just to keep the brand responsive to competitor developments.

The long and short of it is what applies to your 2200 doesnt apply to the 5200.
 
lucid said:
Although from the same era, yours isn't the same model as @firstborn 's (not that you ever said it was), but you've kind of presumed "same era / same features" which is sort of understandable but in this case it doesn't follow so neatly. That's not surprising when you consider the differences in the chassis and of course the cost.

The higher-end receivers probably represent a bigger R&D spend but a smaller volume of sales due to the price, and so the chassis has to last longer; hence why the £1700 5200 didnt yet receive the HDR features.

There are a lot more buyers for a £500 AVR, and that segment of the market is more competitive and very focused on features. It would be reasonable then to presume that any new chassis development will be fairly short-lived for this kind of amp just to keep the brand responsive to competitor developments.

The long and short of it is what applies to your 2200 doesnt apply to the 5200.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. I just figured as we both had x200 series they'd be the same, with the more expensive models giving more features (which I believe does happen, but possibly worse supported). I think even the budget amp end is struggling these days though as everybody seems to go for a soundbar.
 
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