New build advice for student

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I'm studying an engineering degree, I will not use the PC for gaming and I do not intend to overclock. The PC will be used for productivity type work including programming, simulation, virtualisation and office applications. I am thinking of getting either the 13700k or the AMD 7950X which is £15 more, the 7900X is available for £80 less than the 7950X. I will run the CPU in a low power mode most of the time to save electricity. What would be the most suitable CPU and what would use the least energy?

Also, for the SSD I read that the Solidigm P44 Pro SSD is more energy efficient than the Samsung 990 Pro, would this save much electricity or would there not be much of a difference? Which SSD brand is more reliable in the long term Solidigm or Samsung?

Thank you
 
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Which applications will you be running? Unless you're running your PC full-bore 24/7 energy efficiency should be well down your list of considerations.
 
I can get a better price for the PC through a disability supplier I have, but all the components apart from the monitor need to come from the same custom PC builder. I asked if I could order a case from another supplier, but they advised me not too.

I wasn't going to order a discrete graphics card, as I was going to try just using the integrated graphics. The university PC's only have integrated graphics too. The Samsung 990 Pro 2TB is only £11 more than the 980 Pro 2TB. The Samsung 990 Pro 2TB is £29 more than the Solidigm P44 Pro 2TB. I know the Fractal case doesn't have the best thermals but I didn't want a glass side window. I thought if I'm not having a graphics card, and the CPU is going to run in a low power mode most of the time, therefore the temperature in the case will not get too high.

Here is the build I was thinking of getting:

FRACTAL DEFINE 7 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
AMD Ryzen 9 7950X
ASUS® TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI (DDR5, PCIe 5.0)
64GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 5600MHz (2 x 32GB)
2TB SAMSUNG 990 PRO M.2, PCIe 4.0 NVMe (up to 7450MB/R, 6900MB/W)
CORSAIR 850W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
DeepCool AK620 High-Performance Dual Tower CPU Cooler

Thank you
 
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I'm studying an engineering degree, I will not use the PC for gaming and I do not intend to overclock. The PC will be used for productivity type work including programming, simulation, virtualisation and office applications. I am thinking of getting either the 13700k or the AMD 7950X which is £15 more, the 7900X is available for £80 less than the 13700k. I will run the CPU in a low power mode most of the time to save electricity. What would be the most suitable CPU and what would use the least energy?

Also, for the SSD I read that the Solidigm P44 Pro SSD is more energy efficient than the Samsung 990 Pro, would this save much electricity or would there not be much of a difference? Which SSD brand is more reliable in the long term Solidigm or Samsung?

Thank you
I have a 7950X running in ECO 65W mode. This reduces the power usage a lot and performance is still very good. Single core performance is the same as 170W mode(5.775GHz) and under full load it gets 31K Cinebench (around 4GHz all core). Using ECO 105W gets 90% of the 170W performance but uses a lot less power, think 105W gets ~36K in Cinebench and 170W get ~39K. I got a WD 850X NVMe drive as they are fast and it’s been solid so far, don’t think the power difference between NVMe drives will be big, a few watts maybe.
 
Which applications will you be running? Unless you're running your PC full-bore 24/7 energy efficiency should be well down your list of considerations.
ADS, Visual Studio, Matlab, Bluestacks, Office 365, Intel Quartus, SystemVue, possibly some CAD programs but not much as I'm studying Electrical and Electronic engineering.
Also, I may do another degree in Computer Networking and Security, therefore I will be using networking simulation and security software, and maybe virtualisation programs.
 
I am thinking of getting either the 13700k or the AMD 7950X which is £15 more

The 13700K can put up a surprisingly good fight for productivity, but the 7950X will come out ahead (some productivity numbers in this review and this article).

If energy efficiency is a concern, then generally the more cores AMD CPUs have, the more efficient they get (for long run workloads). There is one caveat, which is that Intel CPUs tend to have lower idle and light load power consumption.

the 7900X is available for £80 less than the 7950X

For £80 you might as well take the 16 core model, though my personal choice (for stock running) would be the 7900 non-X (review).

Also, for the SSD I read that the Solidigm P44 Pro SSD is more energy efficient than the Samsung 990 Pro, would this save much electricity or would there not be much of a difference?

SSD power consumption is not worth worrying about.

If you get the higher-end CPU I'd look into the eco modes as mentioned above, there's an old anandtech article on the subject of power scaling here.
 
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64GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 5600MHz (2 x 32GB)

The sweet spot for performance is DDR5-6000

DeepCool AK620 High-Performance Dual Tower CPU Cooler

I'm not familiar with that one but the DeepCool Assassin and the Noctua DH15 are both good choices.

With regards to the CPU, with your application mix I would go for the 7950. You should check if any of them benefit from GPU acceleration. Look at the Radeon RX 6600 and Arc A750 as cheap entry points.
 
The 13700K can put up a surprisingly good fight for productivity, but the 7950X will come out ahead (some productivity numbers in this review and this article).

If energy efficiency is a concern, then generally the more cores AMD CPUs have, the more efficient they get (for long run workloads). There is one caveat, which is that Intel CPUs tend to have lower idle and light load power consumption.



For £80 you might as well take the 16 core model, though my personal choice (for stock running) would be the 7900 non-X (review).



SSD power consumption is not worth worrying about.

If you get the higher-end CPU I'd look into the eco modes as mentioned above, there's an old anandtech article on the subject of power scaling here.
When an AMD CPU is in Eco mode, does it still have higher power consumption at low idle and light load, compared to an Intel CPU when it has settings similar to the AMD Eco mode?
Are Samsung SSD's more reliable than Solidigm ones?

Thanks
 
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When an AMD CPU is in Eco mode, does it still have higher power consumption at low idle and light load

Yes it does, but if you're going to be using the CPU regularly at high load (which I'd imagine you are, to buy such a high-end CPU) then the difference is something I wouldn't bother worrying about.

If on the other hand, the PC will spend 90% of the time idle, then it is worth paying more attention to your choices of CPU, motherboard and graphics card.

Are Samsung SSD's more reliable than Solidigm ones?

Solidigm are owned by hynix, I believe, who purchased intel's SSD business and technology, so they're not entirely new (and hynix are huge), but new enough that I wouldn't like to guess.

The Samsung 970 Evo had a very good reputation and a lot of those drives are still in service with no issues, but they updated the controller/flash to use the same as the 980 Pro, which I think it is fair to say has mixed reports.

The 990 didn't start very well, with major firmware update(s) needed, but I don't think they've been around long enough to know if they're reliable drives now.
 
When an AMD CPU is in Eco mode, does it still have higher power consumption at low idle and light load, compared to an Intel CPU when it has settings similar to the AMD Eco mode?
Are Samsung SSD's more reliable than Solidigm ones?

Thanks
I have noticed that the idle power is sort of linked to RAM speed:

My idle is ~24W package power with RAM > 4800 for the CPU, if I drop the RAM speed to stock (2*16GB at 4800) it drops to ~14.6W (not running anything, just sat at desktop). Increasing the RAM speed increases the SOC voltage, that increases the idle package power. That said, if I use anything, the difference almost disappears. My thoughts are the difference in power usage for most cases over time between Intel and AMD will be small enough to ignore. I only went AMD as the socket will support several generations like the last one, ignoring that, it’s a coin toss.
One more thing:
I would not get a 13700K, the 14700K will be out soon and its getting a few extra E cores.
 
Yes it does, but if you're going to be using the CPU regularly at high load (which I'd imagine you are, to buy such a high-end CPU) then the difference is something I wouldn't bother worrying about.

If on the other hand, the PC will spend 90% of the time idle, then it is worth paying more attention to your choices of CPU, motherboard and graphics card.

I think the PC will be idle much of the time to study information. However, I have to open and close files quite often, therefore applications will be opened and closed frequently.

Is it better to measure the idle power consumption of the whole system rather than just the CPU, as long as the other components are kept the same? Guru3d.com have measured the whole system here for many CPU's:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i7-13700k-review,6.html

Thanks
 
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I have noticed that the idle power is sort of linked to RAM speed:

My idle is ~24W package power with RAM > 4800 for the CPU, if I drop the RAM speed to stock (2*16GB at 4800) it drops to ~14.6W (not running anything, just sat at desktop). Increasing the RAM speed increases the SOC voltage, that increases the idle package power. That said, if I use anything, the difference almost disappears. My thoughts are the difference in power usage for most cases over time between Intel and AMD will be small enough to ignore. I only went AMD as the socket will support several generations like the last one, ignoring that, it’s a coin toss.
One more thing:
I would not get a 13700K, the 14700K will be out soon and its getting a few extra E cores.
When the 14th gen CPU's are released in October are the prices likely to be higher than the 13th gen? Will the 13th gen prices be reduced too?

Thanks
 
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The PC builder has informed me that they do not make 2x32GB of DDR5 6000MHz RAM available as it proved unstable with an AMD system.
 
I think the PC will be idle much of the time to study information. However, I have to open and close files quite often, therefore applications will be opened and closed frequently.

Is it better to measure the idle power consumption of the whole system rather than just the CPU, as long as the other components are kept the same? Guru3d.com have measured the whole system here for many CPU's:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i7-13700k-review,6.html

Thanks

Honestly, choosing a PC to optimise idle power consumption is not something that can be addressed in a single buying advice thread, the subject is very complicated and you have to pull information from many different sources to make an informed decision.

My personal opinion would be that the difference between an optimised and unoptimised build (often around 30 to 50 watts, which might cost you £50 per year or so, if the PC is idle a lot) is unlikely to trouble someone buying a high-end PC.

If you're still interested in doing this, then I'll try to answer your question without writing a novel.

To optimise idle power you have to care about everything. This is because the lower your power usage goes, the more difference everything makes. What I mean by that: if you have a CPU and graphics card that uses 500 watts combined, then with a motherboard that uses 10 watts more on average, who cares? However, if that motherboard adds 10 watts to idle power, the difference is way more meaningful and it matters much more.

Generally speaking, the idle power figures in 'normal' reviews are nearly useless and the main reason why (at least, in my opinion) is because reviewers just include it as a courtesy or a curiosity, they're not really interested. That leads to very unreliable test conditions and even if they do care (which most don't), they're often using review samples and very early hardware, which is rarely optimised properly and early firmware/drivers can have a big impact on the review numbers.

To give you a ballpark, the difference between an optimised and unoptimised choice of CPU, motherboard and graphics card can be anywhere between 5 and 30 watts, each, with the average somewhere around 10.

Some general rules:
- Contrary to what you might expect, bigger/higher-end CPUs rarely use more (or not much more) than smaller/lower-end CPUs.
- If you have a very bursty workload, then it can be worth turning off, or scaling down the turbo, to avoid unreasonable power usage when just browsing, but this can have a big impact on long-run workloads if it isn't done right.
- Bigger motherboards and higher-end chipset use more power (at idle) than small boards, with low-end chipset. ITX motherboards are usually the best option, regardless of brand and price.
- RAM and SSDs are rarely worth considering, but as FredFlint mentioned, your RAM speed can have an impact on the CPU (I believe this issue also existed for AM4 CPUs, where they used more power at idle when the RAM was above 2666/1.2v).
- HDDs ARE worth considering, since some (especially older HDDs) can make a big difference.
- High-end graphics cards can use a lot more power at idle than entry-level ones. In some cases they can use more power than the rest of the system combined.
- Graphics card idle power is (strongly) influenced by how many monitors you have and what refresh rate they're running at, though driver updates and tweaking can address this.
- Case fans don't have a big impact, unless the idle is really low.
- PSU price, efficiency rating and quality tend to be meaningless to idle on the average desktop PC, i.e. a crappy budget PSU may be more efficient at super low loads than a £200 Titanium rated PSU. The best PSUs are actually mini/Pico (or 12VO, which is what OEMs use) rather than ATX, but these are unlikely to be suitable for a high-end DIY PC.
- BIOS and driver optimisation can make a big difference in some cases (e.g. 10 watts).
- Certain devices, or poorly written/unoptimised software and drivers can prevent the CPU from idling properly, for example: Ryzen had an issue with Discord and Steam (not sure if this still applies).

The best sources for idle power:
- NAS and server forums.
- User posts which include ALL their specs.
- Threads on large forums which are specifically dedicated to idle power and/or efficiency, e.g. here.

YouTube videos that focus on power efficiency and undervolting can be helpful too.
 
Honestly, choosing a PC to optimise idle power consumption is not something that can be addressed in a single buying advice thread, the subject is very complicated and you have to pull information from many different sources to make an informed decision.

My personal opinion would be that the difference between an optimised and unoptimised build (often around 30 to 50 watts, which might cost you £50 per year or so, if the PC is idle a lot) is unlikely to trouble someone buying a high-end PC.

If you're still interested in doing this, then I'll try to answer your question without writing a novel.

To optimise idle power you have to care about everything. This is because the lower your power usage goes, the more difference everything makes. What I mean by that: if you have a CPU and graphics card that uses 500 watts combined, then with a motherboard that uses 10 watts more on average, who cares? However, if that motherboard adds 10 watts to idle power, the difference is way more meaningful and it matters much more.

Generally speaking, the idle power figures in 'normal' reviews are nearly useless and the main reason why (at least, in my opinion) is because reviewers just include it as a courtesy or a curiosity, they're not really interested. That leads to very unreliable test conditions and even if they do care (which most don't), they're often using review samples and very early hardware, which is rarely optimised properly and early firmware/drivers can have a big impact on the review numbers.

To give you a ballpark, the difference between an optimised and unoptimised choice of CPU, motherboard and graphics card can be anywhere between 5 and 30 watts, each, with the average somewhere around 10.

Some general rules:
- Contrary to what you might expect, bigger/higher-end CPUs rarely use more (or not much more) than smaller/lower-end CPUs.
- If you have a very bursty workload, then it can be worth turning off, or scaling down the turbo, to avoid unreasonable power usage when just browsing, but this can have a big impact on long-run workloads if it isn't done right.
- Bigger motherboards and higher-end chipset use more power (at idle) than small boards, with low-end chipset. ITX motherboards are usually the best option, regardless of brand and price.
- RAM and SSDs are rarely worth considering, but as FredFlint mentioned, your RAM speed can have an impact on the CPU (I believe this issue also existed for AM4 CPUs, where they used more power at idle when the RAM was above 2666/1.2v).
- HDDs ARE worth considering, since some (especially older HDDs) can make a big difference.
- High-end graphics cards can use a lot more power at idle than entry-level ones. In some cases they can use more power than the rest of the system combined.
- Graphics card idle power is (strongly) influenced by how many monitors you have and what refresh rate they're running at, though driver updates and tweaking can address this.
- Case fans don't have a big impact, unless the idle is really low.
- PSU price, efficiency rating and quality tend to be meaningless to idle on the average desktop PC, i.e. a crappy budget PSU may be more efficient at super low loads than a £200 Titanium rated PSU. The best PSUs are actually mini/Pico (or 12VO, which is what OEMs use) rather than ATX, but these are unlikely to be suitable for a high-end DIY PC.
- BIOS and driver optimisation can make a big difference in some cases (e.g. 10 watts).
- Certain devices, or poorly written/unoptimised software and drivers can prevent the CPU from idling properly, for example: Ryzen had an issue with Discord and Steam (not sure if this still applies).

The best sources for idle power:
- NAS and server forums.
- User posts which include ALL their specs.
- Threads on large forums which are specifically dedicated to idle power and/or efficiency, e.g. here.

YouTube videos that focus on power efficiency and undervolting can be helpful too.

Thank you for your very informative and helpful reply.

This forum thread has some interesting information about the difference between the Intel and AMD CPU's:
 
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Thank you for your very informative and helpful reply.

This forum thread has some interesting information about the difference between the Intel and AMD CPU's:
That was a good video but his AMD idle (55W) was way high. Mine at 7950X at 170W idles at ~22-30W, at ECO 65W, its about the same. With RAM at 4800 it drops to ~16W:
 
https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...nsumption-of-intel-13-and-ryzen-7000.3795918/
Sorry, I didn't mean the video, on post 15 of the above thread, CPU idle power usage data and PC system idle power consumption values are shown. The images have been taken from the Guru3d.com webpage I posted earlier:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i7-13700k-review,6.html
The 13700K has higher PC system power usage than the 7900X and 7950X.

In post 16 of the thread, an image is shown and discussed about the differences between the Intel and AMD CPU architectures.

Should the PC system power usage data be compared and not just the CPU power consumption, as this is a fairer comparison due to the differences in the CPU architecture? Assuming that the other components on the system are kept the same, but they must have done this to conduct a fair comparison test.

This is taken from the Guru3d webpage above:
"We show energy consumption based on the entire PC (motherboard / processor / graphics card / memory / SSD). This number depends and will vary per motherboard (added ICs / controllers / wifi / Bluetooth) and PSU (efficiency). Keep in mind that we measure the ENTIRE PC, not just the processor's power consumption. Your average PC can differ from our numbers if you add optical drives, HDDs, soundcards etc. Also do not rule out anything RGB these days, an RGB lit motherboard, Keyboard, Liquid cooler, and mouse these days can easily add 10 to 15 Watts of power consumption to that Wattage budget."
 
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https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...nsumption-of-intel-13-and-ryzen-7000.3795918/
Sorry, I didn't mean the video, on post 15 of the above thread, CPU idle power usage data and PC system idle power consumption values are shown. The images have been taken from the Guru3d.com webpage I posted earlier:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i7-13700k-review,6.html
The 13700K has higher PC system power usage than the 7900X and 7950X.

In post 16 of the thread, an image is shown and discussed about the differences between the Intel and AMD CPU architectures.

Should the PC system power usage data be compared and not just the CPU power consumption, as this is a fairer comparison due to the differences in the CPU architecture? Assuming that the other components on the system are kept the same, but they must have done this to conduct a fair comparison test.

This is taken from the Guru3d webpage above:
"We show energy consumption based on the entire PC (motherboard / processor / graphics card / memory / SSD). This number depends and will vary per motherboard (added ICs / controllers / wifi / Bluetooth) and PSU (efficiency). Keep in mind that we measure the ENTIRE PC, not just the processor's power consumption. Your average PC can differ from our numbers if you add optical drives, HDDs, soundcards etc. Also do not rule out anything RGB these days, an RGB lit motherboard, Keyboard, Liquid cooler, and mouse these days can easily add 10 to 15 Watts of power consumption to that Wattage budget."
If the most important thing is power consumption, get a laptop with a Ryzen 9 7945HX3D or Ryzen 9 7945HX in it. This will give the BEST power usage and still be a very fast CPU! Also, you can carry it about.
 
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If the most important thing is power consumption, get a laptop with a Ryzen 9 7945HX3D or Ryzen 9 7945HX in it. This will give the BEST power usage and still be a very fast CPU! Also, you can carry it about.
I already have a laptop, a Dell Latitude 5310, it only has a i5-10310U, 256GB SSD and 8GB of RAM. It has managed to run the software I've used so far on the course, but the fan comes on all the time which is annoying. I wanted a desktop because they are easier to add and remove components, and to connect surround sound speakers, plus they are better value for money than laptops. I don't want a gaming laptop, I did consider a HP workstation laptop but they are too expensive compared to a desktop and offer less performance.
 
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https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...nsumption-of-intel-13-and-ryzen-7000.3795918/
Sorry, I didn't mean the video, on post 15 of the above thread, CPU idle power usage data and PC system idle power consumption values are shown. The images have been taken from the Guru3d.com webpage I posted earlier:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i7-13700k-review,6.html
The 13700K has higher PC system power usage than the 7900X and 7950X.

I don't know what they used (because I haven't checked the test methodology), but there are different ways of getting this information.

For example, you can:
- Read it directly from the power connectors with your own equipment (I think gamers nexus use this method) and isolate the CPU from the board.
- Use software readings like from hwinfo, that report from the cores and package power.
- Use a plugin wall meter that takes it from the plug and subtract from this reading (e.g. PSU efficiency, motherboard and graphics card idles).

In reference to the question: why does the 13700K have higher idle power in the guru3d chart when the CPU idle draw is lower in tweaktown's chart, I would guess a few reasons:
- The nature of the readings and how they were measured (as mentioned above).
- The motherboard used (since it can make a big difference, especially a high-end one, which is what reviewers tend to use).
- How the BIOS / firmware was optimised.

I'd also reiterate again, most hardware reviewers just don't care about idle power and they don't worry about the test conditions. For example: they might even use a different graphics card, or PSU between reviews and this is not stated in these charts.

Some of the more reliable websites I've found for power figures are:

Computerbase, they usually have quite a few numbers in their reviews and their CPU/GPU numbers seem more accurate than many I've seen (example).
HWCooling (they have some interesting articles on rarely covered topics, like this)
Igorslab, though they're maybe more interested in graphics cards (example).

In all honesty, if your PC is spending 90% of the time idle and you really care about idle, you'd likely be better off buying a NUC or something like this and then just using the PC when you really need the power.
 
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