New build advice needed, been 9 years since my last!

jabokai

jabokai

jabokai

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Joined
31 May 2008
Posts
129
Location
Aberdeen
Hi folks!

Now, please don't shoot me, but I'm planning on doing a "pretty" build - first one for me, ever! I have always placed performance and the bang-for-buck factors as the most important things, with aesthetics not even being any kind of consideration. However, I've decided I want to build a pretty PC just for the hell of it, so my starting point is all backwards from what I've always done. Oh, and I'll be paying the white tax! ;)

I'm going to need help with the core parts as I am quite out of the PC building scene - last one was an i7-5820K and I'm still using it, albeit with the GPU upgraded to a GTX1080 a couple of years after the initial build.

Let's get the looks out of the way first, all Lian li, all white...

O11 Vision case (when it's available, hopefully soon) - £144.95 as listed on OCUK just now
Galahad II LCD SL-INF AIO 360mm Performance ARGB CPU Water Cooler - £269.99
3 x UNI SL120 Infinity Reverse Blade fans - £89.97
2 x UNI SL120 Infinity fans - £89.99*
Strimer Plus 240 pin - £59.99
Strimer Plus 80 pin (double or triple depending on GPU) - £49.99

*looks like I need to buy the triple pack of these to get the controller - there is no triple pack of the reverse fans, which is weird as surely you will always have more intakes! I suppose I could buy a couple of extra singles and have a push/pull on the radiator.

Now that is going to cost £704.88 which will leave me up to £1800 to spend on the actual important bits (no peripherals, just the gubbins.)

This is where I get stuck - I'm really not sure where the bang/buck lies currently, in particular thinking about the CPU/GPU combo. All but one of my previous builds have been Intel/nVidia as I had lots of issues the one time I went ATI/AMD. Is that all "fixed" now? Are there still driver issues, particularly on the games side, with AMD?

My basic thinking here is 32Gb memory and 2 x 4Tb M2 cards - other than that I'm open to ideas! Oh, and it all needs to be white where relevant! With the looks out of the way I want to maximise the bang/buck factor, as I used to do in the past.

The only other thing I would say is that the only upgrades I would be likely to do are storage and possibly the GPU after a few years, so the rest of the stuff should have a little headroom for that change if possible.

I also have a couple of supplementary questions - what is the situation with Windows just now... I have 3 legit copies (OEM IIRC) - one on my current PC, one on the old/backup and one on a VM (which was from the even older PC!) Will I be able to reuse any, or do they still check for component change and say "this is a new PC"?

Second, is there any kind of charity for recycling old stuff? I have a lot of working gear and just wondering if there any places that take that stuff in for teaching, or for rebuilding for charities or something?

Sorry this is a bit long! :)
 
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Wow, thank you for the very detailed reply, I really appreciate it! I will take some time to go through the components individually but my gut reaction , and a few points, would be...

I'm thinking that, as there's not a categoric AMD/AMD is absolutely fine and, to all intents and purposes, equivalent to Intel/Nvidia then I'd probably go with what I know. I'll look into that a bit more though as people are buying it so it can't totally suck! ;)

I could kick off with 1 x 4Tb M2 and figure in any extra as a future upgrade. I don't want any mechanical drives at all - I don't have anything against them (I have an 8 bay NAS!) but I want the machine to be sort of futuristic and unencumbered with "old" tech. Okay so if that was REALLY true then I'd have no fans and it'd be all watercooled but, hypocritically, I sort of like the visible movement of fans. :cry:

The PSU would be in a separate side chamber, not visible, in that case so can easily be black. The cables - well, white better, but there wouldn't be much visible of them considering I'm already replacing the mobo and GPU ones with the Lian Li Strimers. I'll paste in the pic of pretty much what I'm aiming for in terms of aesthetics with that case...

O11_Vision_06.webp
 
Good afternoon! First, thanks to everyone for their input, I'm really appreciating it. It's leading off to look at issues/reviews/benchmarks/etc , and giving me a bit of a catch-up on the building scene... I'm still working through that process! :cry:

I'll try and address some points -

I appreciate that cost of the Lian Li cooler is way, way OTT and completely unnecessary, but for this build aesthetics is up there as a primary consideration and I just like it. I know I could put the money to better use, in terms of performance, but I'm okay with the cost. Bear in mind that my budget in the past has been around £1300 and that included the cooler/case/fans. So having a budget of around £2500 this time, I'm kinda committing more to the nuts and bolts, as well as the looks. And I also realise that many people will look at the result and think "yuck", that's okay too. ;)

The PC doesn't need to be solely focused on gaming, I use it for a load of general stuff as well. For example, the last game I bought was Far Cry 6. Out of interest I went to see what settings I had been playing on and it was 1440 with everything set to Ultra. I generally sacrifice resolution and framerate (as long as it's averaging about 60) for the quality of the visuals. I ran the Far Cry 6 benchmark and it averaged 56, although I have vsync on so that just means it dips a bit now ang again - I never notice! One of the reasons for this build is I do want to experience some ray tracing stuff - I have watched the demos and it looks pretty neat to me. I have a 4k monitor, but it's just a regular one (LG 27"), no gaming features at all. Again, most of the time I'm not gaming so it's okay. I also actually play VR titles about 50/50 along with regular titles - Half Life Alyx is my favourite game, ever! :cry:

Based on the above I'm leaning towards the initial Intel build with the 13700 (although I'd get the K version) and the 4070 GPU. However, Noughtboy led me to have a look at the MLID information and it seems like waiting on the GPU would be a wise move. It also kind of reminds me of all my previous builds - there's always something better and/or cheaper coming just around the corner! ;) I could stick my 1080 in it for a couple of months.

I don't understand the Intel CPU/Mobo issue - I need to read up on that! I would like, if possible, the foundations (mobo/memory/storage/PSU) be be able to support the potential to upgrade for definite the GPU, but possibly also the CPU. I like the mobo in Tetras last build but if it can't handle at least 1 tier of upgrade then it's a bit of a dead end.

I'm also interested in the different 4Tb M2 cards - how much real world speed difference is there with them? Like, if it's a game loading in 20 seconds rather than 25 I'd be happy enough with the "slow" one, I'm not terribly impatient. I'm also thinking I could have a "little" 1Tb, or even 500Gb, top speed one for the OS and regular apps and then the slow 4Tb for games and general storage.

Thanks again folks!
 
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No, I don't expect ray tracing at ultra settings at 4k on the build - I'm not that naive or optimistic! :cry: What I was saying was that, although I have a 4K monitor, the last game I bought was set to Ultra, and then the resolution set to whatever level achieved, roughly, 60fps at Ultra settings - in that case, 1440. I possibly tested 4k to start and turned it down, I can't remember. I would expect to play things with ray tracing at a maximum resolution of 1440, and possibly only 1080, and that is fine. It's the overall quality of the visuals I value, rather than outright resolution (or framerate over 60 seeing as my monitor can't even handle it!)... although obviously I ain't gonna play at 640x480! ;) I am assuming that these cards can ray trace at these lower resolutions, otherwise what is the point in them!

Hmm, the 12-14 thing just sounds dumb! Whose fault is that - Intel or the mobo manufacturer? I don't knwo when the 14s came out but I'd have thought the mobo manufacturer would be pre-flashing to support them... but maybe 14 is too new just now.

I wouldn't use the slow drive for a boot, no - hence my thinking to have something like a 1Tb 990 Pro or whatever, for booting and regular apps. Then the "crappy" drive just for general storage and games. But I don't like what I've just read about QLC (I value longevity even if I don't actually reach the limit), so will probably go for a fancy 1Tb and fancy 4Tb.
 
Okay, I'm not liking the Intel thing so, you've convinced me - AMD! :cry:

This is a rough idea - I still have to go through the details and figure out if there are better solutions once I read reviews and benchmarks and reliability reports... it's a process! ;) That mobo has 4 M2 slots - I like that! Aside from that, not sure the x670 chipset is better or worse than the b650. Looked at a slightly higher power PSU even if not needed, just for a touch of future proofing. The memory, 6400, seems to match the mobo and same price as the 6000 - I doubt there is any real difference. I put the GPU in but will probably wait until the Super refresh in January.

My basket at OcUK:

Total: £1,874.94 (includes delivery: £0.00)​
 
Asus Prime X670E-Pro WIFI (Socket AM5) DDR5 ATX Motherboard
MB-6JB-AS
£300 (incl. VAT)
Find out more
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core 5.00GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail
CP-3DT-AM
£480 (incl. VAT)
FREE DELIVERY
Find out more
TeamGroup Delta RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-51200C40 6400MHz Dual Channel Kit - White
MY-0AW-TG
£140 (incl. VAT)
£110 (incl. VAT)
Find out more
I do like storage! But I have a 64Tb NAS (although 16Tb of that is for redundancy) and I have decided I can shovel stuff I rarely use onto there. And then 4 M2s will be plenty so wouldn't need any SATA.

Speaking of M2 - in my travels over the web reading about all these things I recall somewhere mentioning that, for Intel, if you have something in the PCIe 5.0 M2 slot then your GPU drops from x16 to x8... I haven't noticed that mentioned for AMD - I assume they don't have that issue? Not that I specced a 5.0 card for now, but it's nice to have it as a possible future upgrade.

You did get me looking at Intel again anyway - stop it! ;) There is a very pretty board - Gigabyte Z790 AORUS Pro X - with a white PCB (unlike all these other "white" mobos) but for the amount of board that is visible under all the other gubbins even I am not going to pay that!

As for the small form factor question - no! :cry: The essence of this build is around that Lian Li O11 Vision case... if it ever actually gets in stock!
 
So Gen 14 doesn't have that issue? Seeing as you specifically mention 12 and 13, I mean?

TUF - Stop trying to add black into the system! :mad: :cry: ;) Although, an all black mobo like that would actually be a plausible design choice and might even make the white stuff pop more... but I want the PC to look like it'd fit in the Nostromo (Alien) medical bay! :cry:

And I didn't even realise that XMP was an Intel thing so thanks for pointing that out! So I googled stuff and read the AMD equivalent is EXPO... are either of them really worth it? The new memory you specced me there is black! :mad: :cry: ;) After a bit of digging the only white DDR5 EXPO memory I could find was on Kingston's own site - the part number doesn't seem to exist anywhere else. But it is £133.99 for 2x16 6000 sticks so it's not terrible... if EXPO is worth it.

My £1800 budget is not absolute - I don't really want to spend more than 2.5k (inc. all the white stuff in the initial post) in total as that feels to me about the most I want to spend. But I can push it up some more to make things work well together and to maintain the aesthetics.
 
Just some thoughts...

I noticed that both the example build pics I posted from Lian Li's site have the radiator the wrong way up! I find it hard to understand why manufacturers are still doing this - I thought the consensus was the pipes should be at the bottom of the rad, and the pump should be (at least) lower than the top of the rad. Basically to take care of air in the system, and yes that does happen even in a closed system! Ideally, it should be top mounted, of course, but not possible in the case I'm choosing. What's strange is that Lian Li built it the right way round for the reveal of the case at Computex here - https://youtu.be/428XUc3JqCQ?t=54 - I'm guessing they just do it for "sales pics" but it means people will end up just doing it that way.

I also noticed that the fans on the AIO are exhausts. I did some reading and it seems to be another "up for discussion" thing, but I did find some tests where it showed that (looking at the 2 main heat components of CPU and GPU) having an AIO as exhaust affected the CPU temps considerably more than the reverse. I found a video where the exhaust AIO setup increased CPU temp by 10 degrees but the reverse scenario only increased the GPU by 1 degree. My view is that the airflow in that case (lacking a top position for fans as it does) should be exactly as Lian Li picture on their own site - pasted below.

All that said, I think the fans on the Galahad II are standard Infinity fans, nothing unique to the AIO. So I was thinking I could take them off and use 2 of them as my rear exhausts and then buy 6 reverse fans (3 for the cooler, 3 for the bottom). They do differ in spec slightly -

Normal
MAX. AIR PRESSURE - 2.66 mmH2O
MAX. AIRFLOW - 61.3 CFM

Reverse
MAX. AIR PRESSURE - 2.02 mmH2O
MAX. AIRFLOW - 63.6 CFM

From my understanding you'd generally go for fans with a higher pressure for a radiator, but does it really matter too much? I also found this quote on Lian Li's site for the reverse fans - "LOWER WIND NOISE. When installed as intake fan with the reverse blade, the wind noise is lower than the regular blade. Note: More obvious when installed on a radiator" - the fact they mention using them on a rad suggests to me there is no issue there.

Finally... I might be overthinking all this - maybe I should just mount the rad the wrong way up, as an exhaust! :cry:


e6WmlQd.png
 
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Just an update - everything except the GPU (and associated Strimer cable) has been ordered. Probably going to stick my 1080 in until the nvidia refresh, even though it's not going to match the aesthetic! I'm still swithering though, and might say "stuff it, I'm getting one now" if I get impatient!

So I went for

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 4.2 GHz 8-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Lian Li Galahad II LCD SL-INF 79.9 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X670E-PRO WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard
Storage: 2 x Samsung 990 Pro 4 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
Case: Lian Li O11 Vision ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF A3 Snow 1050 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
Case Fan: 6 x Lian Li UNI FAN SL-INF Reverse Blade 63.6 CFM 120 mm Fan
Custom: Lian Li Strimer Plus V2 24-pin RGB motherboard cable
Custom: Kingston FURY Beast RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL36 Memory EXPO White

That all came to £1897.30 so leaves me with £602.70 (on my nominal budget of 2.5k) for the GPU and Strimer. I'll basically be getting a 4070 Super if the prices are okay, or an outgoing 4070 hopefully at a discount price. Might also need an internal usb hub (I can't be bothered working it out at this stage!) so that'll be about £25.

I also managed to get my 2 x 4Tb M2s! I'm sure it's obvious that I didn't order all this from OCUK and I know we can't link to competitors (which is fine of course) but I know they must appreciate that one of the benefits of doing your own build is shopping around and I ordered from 5 different stores so I actually think that's quite good, spreading the cash around a few different businesses.

Thanks for your help all, especially Tetras.
 
So here's how the build's going so far...

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Yeah, it's not! There's no case so I decided to make one out of wood...

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Okay, you got me, that's not a case, it's really to replace the carboard box that comprises my current PC "stand"!

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Hurry up with the case Lian Li/Overclockers or all my components will be out of date! I have a free return until 31st Jan on the GPU... I decided I didn't want to wait for the Super refresh, but depending on how long the case takes, I might.
 
Just a final update... I realise that sometimes people may ask for help here and then are never heard from again - I figured it was polite to show what you helped me create!

I tidied up the cables, got nicer looking CPU power extension cables, attacked the drive cages (which are going in the recycle bin anyway!) with Dremels to harvest some honeycomb to fill in the unsightly gaps either side of the lower fans, and put in a screen at the top to fill in space. I'm not really a fan of screens in cases as I think it's essentially not very useful, but meh, the dead space was annoying so figured it was the lesser of two evils!


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