New Build Freezes - Memory Settings?

lowrez

lowrez

lowrez

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Completely new to this; just built this...

AMD Phenom II X4 Quad Core 955 Black Edition "125W Edition" 3.20GHz
MSI 990FXA-GD65 AMD 990 FX (AMD AM3/AM3+) DDR3
Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel
XFX ATI Radeon HD 6850 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache
Samsung SH-S222AL/BEBE 22x DVD±RW SATA Lightscribe ReWriter
Cooler Master Elite Power 450W Power Supply
Zalman Z9 Plus Tower Case with Fan Controller

First switch on came up with a message something like:-

A previous attempt to overclock failed
F1 to enter config
F2 to load defaults

F2 got me into BIOS, the clock was running fine, but after a few seconds it froze.

System continues to freeze after many re-boots, I have got as far as changing boot sequence and attempting to load Win.7 or XP but ultimately it will freeze, not completing the OS install.

I have read the troubleshooting guides and done a lot of checking (things seated OK, heatsink properly attached, etc) concluded it may be the memory settings but being new to this I am unsure about what actual action I need to take. I am not trying to overclock, simply get the beastie to run on "base settings".

Reason I am posting im memory section is I can see BIOS is set to 1333 (mobo default I assume) but my memory is 1600. In the review section on the OcUK retail site there are some review comments about this memory working OK on AMD rigs; I think I need to make some adjustments though, but am not sure what, can anyone point me in the right direction please? Am I on the right track? Or does this symptom point to some other issue?
 
Thought I should give some more detail; think I am stumbling about a bit and making some daft mistakes; remember this is totally new to me though...
- Accepting default settings on F2 tends to give a more stable result; that puts in a 1333 memory speed; if I override it to 1600 a re-boot tends to give me the same F1/F2 failed overclocking error.
- Re-starts are still freezing though; or am I just being impatient; movement through the bios screens takes several key presses sometimes and if I watch the bios clock it ticks over in a stumbling fashion, not a dead "on time beat". Sometimes I get through to a boot for an O/S install. Many other occasions just freeze part way in, it seems at random.
- Maybe these symptoms are a result of the connections I have to mouse/keyboard monitor through and the basic drivers in place at outset? I have a vga monitor, the only way to connect is through the graphics card and I have to use a DVI/I to VGA converter. The mouse and keyboard are connected on USB.
- I fear this next one is probably very daft; the win.7 CD I am using is an OEM from a mainstream brand laptop purchase I made a while ago...am I shooting myself in the foot trying to skimp and use this? Are the O/S install hangs simply due to this, and not in fact anything to do with memory? Not sure if I will get any replies so in desperation I have ordered a new generic OEM version anyway...that is the right choice isn't it? Generic OEM is suitable for self build and should load just the same as the "full" version.
- I am slowly sinking into despair on this, thought cashing in the xbox and building this rig would get a great result, am finding the gulf between xbox play and the solitaire that this old laptop can just about run depressingly sombre, any suggestions on how to make this new kit hang together very gratefully accepted.
 
Thanks nkata! To give me as clear a run as possible at this I will await delivery of my Win.7 install CD too. Not had chance to check the mail today (am at work now), the estimate is for delivery tomorrow, but you never know...I will report back results as soon as I have tried these settings.
 
Hi nkata. Win.7 had arrived today. Varying results tonight. Currently I have a black screen with the cursor top left and the number 99 bottom right. I have advanced to this spot after the Win.7 install got to its furthest point so far but don't want to push the memory voltage any higher in case I damage anything. The "99 screen" has been sat like that for a good 5 minutes. I suspect it is another freeze; but I have read that a Win.7 install can show symptoms of no progress at times. Here is what has happened so far:-
- XMS profile? I don't know what that is and I can't see any mention of it in BIOS
- 9, 9, 9, 24 and 1T - On my Overclocking menu I have an entry called MEMORY-Z in it are entries for DIMM 1 Memory SPD and DIMM 2 Memory SPD both look identical to me and both won't allow me to change any entries, these are:-
SDRAM Cycle Time 1CLK
DRAM tCL 9CLK
DRAM tRCD 9CLK
DRAM tRP 9 CLK
DRAM tRAS 24CLK
DRAM tRFC 74CLK
DRAM tWR 10CLK
DRAM tWTR 5CLK
DRAM tRRD 5CLK
DRAM tRTP 5 CLK
DRAM tFAW 25CLK
DRAM tRC 34CLK

Back up in the main Overclocking menu there is a setting called DRAM Voltage. A pop-up list only allows discrete values to be set; lowest in the range you provided is 1.608. A re-boot on this value came up with the "unsuccessful overclock" message. Back in BIOS I noticed a "Green Power" main menu option in there with a conflicting voltage figure of 1.584 for DRAM even though the overclocking menu was still at 1.608. I also noticed other voltage values fluctuating slightly, this included the DRAM setting. Throughout the ensuing tries at different voltages the other values stayed the same so I will just mention them the once:-
CPU Vcore Voltage varied from 1.440 to 1.448
3.3v varied from 3.285 to 3.301
5v varied from 5.046 to 5.089
12v varied from 12.076 to 12.165

I then ran through a sequence of upping the overclocking menu DRAM voltage whilst checking the equivalent Green Power DRAM voltage. It went like this:-

1.63 - didn't check green as it gave an overclock fail on re-boot
1.645 - green of 1.624
1.652 - green of 1.632
1.659 - green of 1.632 to 1.634
1.666 - green of 1.640 to 1.648
1.674 - green of 1.648 to 1.656
1.681 - green of 1.656 to 1.664

Difficult to say definitively but, the lower voltages seemed more unstable. Many visits into BIOS to up to the next level would result in the overclocking error followed by BIOS freezes. Higher values tended to allow progress to CD boot and potential installs of Win.7.

It's taken me a while to type all this up and a re-visit to the machine shows it still sat on the "99 screen" so I have assumed another freeze and am not going to boost the memory voltage any higher.

Not sure if previous attempts at a Win.7 install with my "branded OEM" CD are complicating matters? Instead of an unformatted hard drive I now have two partitions; one of just 100MB and another of the remaining space making up the 500GBish available. I have tried doing a customised install and using the options to delete the partitions starting with the 100MB one, but, Win.7 got stuck, or was it another freeze? It seems that I have a previous partial install of Win.7 and I am not sure if my brand new OEM disk is doing the clean install I want, can't figure out how to format the drive from BIOS though.

One failed Win.7 install on a lower memory voltage setting came up with a 1A BSOD quoting MEMORY_MANAGEMENT as the issue. A later one got into a weird loop stuck on the Install button, it just kept going back to it time and again and ultimately gave me a 1E BSOD.

So, I am at 1.681v for DRAM voltage on the overclocking menu giving me a range of 1.656v to 1.664v in the Green Energy management menu. This feels like the most stable option so far, but it is leading to the Win.7 complications.

I think clearing the hard drive would eradicate any Win.7 questions, but I'm struggling with how to do that.

If I get any further overclocking errors or BIOS freezes do you think its OK to keep upping the DRAM voltage until things stabilise.

Is it normal for any of the voltage values under the green power management menu to vary? Is my 450w power supply causing some of the issues? An on-line calculator indicated I needed 386w peak which is why I opted for the 450w unit.

Loads of questions! Hoping you can answer some.
 
Thanks mickyflinn. Thought I had done my homework on the power front; clearly not! I can now see a 550w minimum being quoted here: http://xfxforce.com/en-us/products/graphiccards/hd 6000series/6850.aspx. I have one 6 pin connector out of the current unit going into the card. For some reason there is a 6 pin graphics card connector on the motherboard, can't figure out why? Hope I am connecting correctly? I chose this board because I wanted the option of crossfire if the single card didn't produce good frame rates. I am pretty sure it will though. This mobo was the first working up the list in price order that appeared to have 2 PCI16 actually running at x16. Obviously my current power supply would not support crossfire with only one 6 pin connector, but it now seems it won't even support one card! Time to go shopping again. Seems I have several instabilities in this set-up! I will buy a power supply capable of delivering the full crossfire output, that should face off any question about having enough power for just a single card. Thanks again.
 
I've gone for an 850w supply to try and eradicate any suspicion that there isn't enough oomph for everything. This unit is also in excess of the crossfire spec should I ever move to that: Lepa B-Series 850W '80 Plus Bronze' Modular Power Supply. It arrives tomorrow in theory and I'll continue the diagnosis that evening post install.
 
This new PSU, depending on the reviews, has either 6, or 8, 6pin or 6+2pin connectors. I saw that some graphics cards need two connectors attaching so, if I ever went that route with dual cards, and there was this one on the mobo too I'd need 5. Is the mobo connector only needed for a dual card config, or, should I put a connector on it anyway with just the current single graphics card installed?
 
Not a lot of improvement after all that.
CPU Vcore Voltage tends to be steady at 1.448 but there are blips down to 1.440 every 30 or so seconds
3.3v has increased but now varies constantly from 3.317 to 3.333
5v is now rock steady at an increased 5.132
12v is up too and mostly steady at 12.334 it does drop every 30 seconds or so but its so swift I can't make what to; it's instantly back to 12.334
The DRAM voltage variability has not gone away; it still varies constantly between 1.656 to 1.664 in the green monitor even though it is set to 1.681 in the overclocking menu

The rig is still unstable, freezes randomly, re-starts randomly, sometimes not even making it into bios and quite often I get the same old "overclocking failed" error. Is this green bios power monitor actually any good?

Where do I go from here? Can I assume 850W of power takes the PSU out of the loop as a source of the instability? Can I up the memory voltage higher than 1.65 without damaging it to see if things will settle down?
 
I'm reading general stuff on the web indicating that BIOS voltage detectors are not that good...they can display instability in rock steady voltages? I wonder if they even display readings anywhere close to actual values? Of course on the web you can find anything to support any argument!

I think I'll start again ignoring the "green monitor" and just tell the mobo coming in at around 1.6v on the overclock menu; I'll up the memory voltage from there, don't care how high I go.

My only other option is to buy some memory that is a better standard match to my system so I might as well ramp my current memory through the ceiling and if it burns out so be it...at this rate I'm going to have two of everything! I predict 40 days and 40 nights of rain!
 
And so to plan B; I can't get any voltage to be stable. I've also found other posts on the net with BIOS updates being made to try and address this. I've had enough! One ray of light; I found a post from someone that had a stable set up using this board so I have ordered the same memory: G.Skill RipJaw 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-10666C9 1333MHz Dual Channel Kit. What an expensive learning curve this has been!

So now I have the makings of another system with all the left over bits from this disastrous first build attempt! Despite all the angst I am getting into this...anyone know what mobos are naturally compatible with my now superfluous Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit? I feel another build coming on; must work within a 450W envelope though overall!

And of course this story isn't over until I have installed the new memory and reached stability...
 
Hi nkata! I was posting whilst you replied too. Thanks for the response. Nice to see the same conclusion to the conundrum. I'll get rid of those partitions when I get that far, hopefully after the new memory completely cures all my ills.
 
Well I won't be going anywhere near MSI for the motherboard that's for sure! I recall my first choice was an ASUS, even had it on order, but it "outofstocked" at point of picking. Good job really as I hadn't really done my homework on that either I realised; the forced change made me understand I wanted to future proof with two PCI-E that could run at x16 and unfortunately the MSI board I have now was next in line. I think the day after this: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3, went on offer and I went "Doh!" but consoled myself with how lean the MSI looked in comparison; I'm sure I would never use most of the connectivity on that Gigabyte board. And the rest is history! I'm sure other instances of MSI are very good, but after digging deep on the web there are other people who can't get memory in excess of 1333 working on this board. I know that's an overclock for the board, but they state it is capable of that. Conversely Gigabyte boards look like they handle this situation fine.

My "budget" gaming machine has turned out possibly "mid-range"! Can't wait to see it fly!

Thanks for the gen on some options for "build 2". It will definitely have to be budget, but who knows what horrors await me. I feel more the wiser though and will be doing a bit more research.

I'm not sure I trust this MSI board to "go Bulldozer" now; that was another future proofing aspect of the purchase but I expect to run it for a good while before tinkering with it again. Should not jump to the conclusion that its a done deal yet, have yet to take delivery of the new memory. I will report back soon!
 
I had a word with the guys over at MSI and they reckon I would have had these inconsistencies with other boards too as its my AMD chip doing the memory management and not the mobo. Article here with an overview: http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=130042.0.

But it gets worse! They reckon the G.Skill I've ordered could have issues too, despite me seeing another rig with it quoted in using my mobo and a Phenom processor! Oh well, not sure to break it out of the packet or see if I can exchange it. Too right; it ain't over till it's over!
 
Wow nkata! That's some achievement; two different makes overclocked, and using all 4 slots on the board? That "breaks" several rules does it not? I wouldn't even think of attempting it. Is it all in the memory specs? Are they totally equivalent? How come you ended up with that mix and what made you think it would run OK in the first place?

I have made huge strides forward this afternoon on my original Corsair memory. The guys at MSI advised I needed a "Command Rate" of 2, not 1. In a leap of faith, I have assumed they meant what my BIOS is calling "SDRAM Cycle Time 1CLK" as that was the only "thingy" I could find with a "1" in it. Can you tell I'm a newbie? After more freezes I discovered this value is in two places, so I changed the other one too, mind you, getting the BIOS to allow me to change the values was a guessing adventure in itself as the menu item that lets you at them was greyed out and the board manual doesn't tell you how to do anything. So I now have a "DRAM Timing Mode" set to "Unlink" from "Auto". The "Advanced DRAM Configuration" option became available by doing that, but, I don't know why or if the new setting is good, bad, or indifferent. MSI said the DRAM voltage needed to be 1.55 or a bit higher, but I remembered what you said about the voltage and I've been upping it step by step; I'm now at 1.659 volts and I've been what I call "solitaire stable" for 3 hours; thats the pinnacle of my game playing ability! I've just unleashed "the player of games" on the machine and I think it will get some serious "minecraft" bashing next, although I'm not sure how much of a challenge rendering boxy lego like graphics will be for this rig, it will be in advance of what I can do t it anyway.

Could it be over? I haven't opened the G.Skill kit in the hope I can trade it for more mundane parts for Build.2

Still need the MSI boys to review what I've done and advise if there is any more. And of course I need to make sure my set-up is really stable.

Huge strides forward! Thanks for all your help nkata and mickyflinn (really pleased with my new PSU!).
 
What are the issues with higher voltages?

I have brought it down step by step to 1.645; been using the built-in Win.7 memory test. It actually froze on me first time around using that at 1.659, but a second go was successful?

Thinking back to yesterday and the freezes I thought I got...they could simply have been the computer going into sleep mode...I was leaving it for a while at a time just to see how long it would stay on an even keel for; at 1.659 I nearly turned it off and back on again but realised at that point that it was just asleep.

Worrying thing about 1.645 is that it froze on me in BIOS, once, but that was after a successful Win.7 memory test and a re-boot to get to BIOS; I was looking for fan controls...it made me think back to the MSI conversations I had, one question was about the rev of the BIOS? If the AMD chip is managing memory, why would they be bothered about the BIOS release? Are there unrelated bugs causing it to hang I wonder...I don't have an answer to that yet, no response yet post me advising them of the BIOS rev.

So, still not absolutely sure I am there, but still a lot more stable. I'll get "the player of games" to put it through its paces again later.
 
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