New build Party wall issues - sound proofing?

dave_1

dave_1

dave_1

Associate
Joined
7 Jan 2019
Posts
7
Hi,

Hope anybody can provide any helpful suggestions.

Myself and my partner bought a new build house from Barratt Homes in 2017. We are having difficulties trying to resolve our terrible noise issue through the party wall, Barratt Homes and NHBC are not willing to help any further since we've followed the right processes of complaining.

The noises we are experiencing from the neighbour is hearing urinating, toilet being flushed, footsteps, running upstairs, closure of doors, word to word conversations coming through our living room, upstairs bedroom which is above our living room and the upstairs hallway which is against the party wall. Please see URL image of the both downstairs house layouts illustrating the party wall construction, https://imgur.com/PY4Pkii

It feels like we are living next door to a 24/7 playground. People across the road in the same house types, do not have any noise issues which we are experiencing, surely this shows there is something wrong with the party wall?

Barratt Homes came in and drilled a small hole behind the plug socket on the party wall and stuck a camera inside to show there is insulation. Apparently this confirms the party wall has been built to standards by looking in a 5cm area of the wall.

NHBC conducted a sound test however they weren’t able to perform a sound test in the living room or anywhere else in the house apart from the kitchen because apparently you’ve meant to have ‘habitable’ rooms on either side. Our living room is adjoining onto their toilet and storage room which is classed as inhabitable. They conducted the sound test in our kitchen because they have their living room opposite. We were fuming over this because this has been going on for a year and have access to the house plans to see how they are laid out, instead rather waste our time agreeing this will be resolved. Of course the sound test passed because we cannot hear them in our Kitchen, only place in the house that is acceptable with noise tolerance.

Is there anyone out there who has any experiencing of these new build issues to advise us what we could do towards Barratt Homes or any ideas on sound proofing but can’t take up too much room because the rooms are already small. Barratt Homes and NHBC are not willing to help any further because the kitchen sound test has closed the case, when this has nothing to do with the areas we are being affected by.


Cheers.
 
The first thing I'd want to understand is the specification that should have been installed. Do you have copies of the architectual /developer drawings? From this is should be fairly straighforward to work out whether the wall has been constructed in accordance with this spec (although it might mean drilling a few more holes!). All I would say is 2 layers of (I'm assuming) 100mm blockwork and 100mm of rockwool isn't the best solution.

I'm by no means a noise consultant but my understanding is it usually travels either as vibration through the structure or is airborne. Given you are hearing conversation It'd be my guess that the noise is travelling through the air. Even the smallest of air gaps will cause noise transference. You can get surveys done that will pressure test the property.

You could also ask if your neighbours mind you conducting the same tests in your house/next door and the properties across the road. Buy a cheap sound meter set up in the exact same position with the same noise playing next door. It won't give perfect results but might be enough to demonstrate you have a defect.

I wouldn't be letting Barratts or NHBC off the hook though, the more of a pain you become the more likely they will be to fix it. It costs them time and effort to keep responding to you; find out their appeals processes, find out who to escalate it, email their regional MD if need be.
 
You may have to commission your own report.

NHBC and the developer won't want to admit anything wrong.

There really shouldn't be any plug sockets in the party wall it ruins the sound insulation.
 
Never mind the noise, it looks like your neighbour's front door would hit the WC door if open?!?
 
Are the neibours that don't hear nothing more tolerant ? Have they got very quiet niebours etc etc have you been in and heard for yourself? why I ask is when we was in a 26 year old semi we could hear all the sounds you said, I am pretty sure when I looked in the loft and party wall there was no insulation between.

I thought it was the norm with semi's

We had to move to a detached before i ended up going crazy.

Sorry to hear this I feel your pain
 
Abyss said:
The first thing I'd want to understand is the specification that should have been installed. Do you have copies of the architectual /developer drawings? From this is should be fairly straighforward to work out whether the wall has been constructed in accordance with this spec (although it might mean drilling a few more holes!). All I would say is 2 layers of (I'm assuming) 100mm blockwork and 100mm of rockwool isn't the best solution.

I'm by no means a noise consultant but my understanding is it usually travels either as vibration through the structure or is airborne. Given you are hearing conversation It'd be my guess that the noise is travelling through the air. Even the smallest of air gaps will cause noise transference. You can get surveys done that will pressure test the property.

You could also ask if your neighbours mind you conducting the same tests in your house/next door and the properties across the road. Buy a cheap sound meter set up in the exact same position with the same noise playing next door. It won't give perfect results but might be enough to demonstrate you have a defect.

I wouldn't be letting Barratts or NHBC off the hook though, the more of a pain you become the more likely they will be to fix it. It costs them time and effort to keep responding to you; find out their appeals processes, find out who to escalate it, email their regional MD if need be.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately they cannot give me any drawings due to them being copy right. All they could tell me was the party wall has been constructed with 100mm breeze block, a gap then 100mm rockwool insulation, a gap then 100mm breeze block.

I'm trying to hold it together by carrying on but its such a draining process seeing no light at the end of the tunnel. I've reached out to the MD but no luck so far.
 
I'm pretty sure mines just solid block on our party wall (late 70s build) and although I can hear them a bit, its nothing that bothers me and can't hear actual words etc so this is quite surprising if there are two walls and cavity. Maybe its going along the roof / floor rather than wall?
 
Duke said:
I'm pretty sure mines just solid block on our party wall (late 70s build) and although I can hear them a bit, its nothing that bothers me and can't hear actual words etc so this is quite surprising if there are two walls and cavity. Maybe its going along the roof / floor rather than wall?
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Yeah it is surprising. Never had issues with my parents house which had a solid block party wall. I'm stunned by how much noise is creeping through. Like you said is it coming through the roof/floor? Not sure as detecting where sound is coming from is difficult.

The plasterboard is dot and dab so that could be acting as an amplifier.
 
Is your first floor concrete (do they do that in new builds?) or timber? Do you know if there is any insulation between the floors?
 
Duke said:
Is your first floor concrete (do they do that in new builds?) or timber? Do you know if there is any insulation between the floors?
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Yeah the ground floor has a concrete base. Not sure if there is insulation underneath, never came to my mind to ask.

Maccapacca said:
You need an independent report. Everything else in conjecture.
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Totally agree, just finding the right expert to conduct the report.
 
dave_1 said:
Yeah the ground floor has a concrete base. Not sure if there is insulation underneath, never came to my mind to ask.
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I mean the first floor, i.e. upstairs. I wish I added some insulation between my floors before putting new carpets down to stop noise going diagonally from their ground floor to my first floor for example :)
 
Duke said:
I mean the first floor, i.e. upstairs. I wish I added some insulation between my floors before putting new carpets down to stop noise going diagonally from their ground floor to my first floor for example :)
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Ah sorry haha. Yes timber. We have carpet upstairs and went for a high end underlay to reduce noise and respect for the neighbours! but no high tech insulation than underlay :P
 
dave_1 said:
Unfortunately they cannot give me any drawings due to them being copy right. All they could tell me was the party wall has been constructed with 100mm breeze block, a gap then 100mm rockwool insulation, a gap then 100mm breeze block.

I'm trying to hold it together by carrying on but its such a draining process seeing no light at the end of the tunnel. I've reached out to the MD but no luck so far.
Click to expand...

I'd just keep being professional but persistent, chase up your emails with a requested timescale to respond etc. I'd suggest you might be better with their regional director in terms of getting action though, their MDs emails probably just go to a help desk.


I also wouldn't be accepting their stance on the drawings. I cna understand they would rather not issue their full plans but it's perfectly reasonable for you to want to know the full construction detail of the party wall. I managed to get the architects drawings for both our new builds after some gentlw persuasion.

I agree though that ultimately you will likely need to commision your own report and a worthwhile investment if it is impacting your quality of life. I'd be tempted to loop Barratts in though advising that due to their lack of action you have no choice but to commision your own report and it is your expectation that if the report identifies an issue that Barratts will resolve it and you will be reimbursed the cost of the survey. Give a clear timescale to respond before instructing it.
 
Is it worth contacting them via Twitter? That seems to get things moving a lot of the time as its a bit more public. Might be worth a try if still struggling.
 
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