New build

[Orison]

Hi there everyone!
This is my first post on these forums, but I've been reading them for a bit now, so before I start I'll just say thanks to all the regular posters for their friendly expertise with all manner of technical queries. Keep up the good work guys.

Anyway, I've been working on a spec for a new pc, and I've come up with something I'm pretty satisfied with, but I would appreciate your input on it.

So, the idea is to make a rig for gaming/general use that is overclockable, powerful and reasonably quiet, without breaking the bank (i.e. budget ~£1000). The idea is to get best return on investment, without unnecessary extravagance or, conversely, skimping (quality components only). There is an emphasis on being scaleable/upgradeable so that the machine will keep pace with tech trends for a couple of years to come - we can't all buy a new £1500 pc every year!

So that's the mission statement, now the parts:

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Case: Antec P180 (£91.64)
Mobo: EVGA nForce 680 (£211.49)
CPU: Intel Core 2 E6600 (£215.01)
CPU Cooling: Scythe Ninja Plus w/Rev B 120mm fan (£38.76)
RAM: 2GB Corsair DDR2 XMS2 Dominator PC2-6400C4 (£205.61)
GPU: Connect3D ATI Radeon X1950 XT (£164.49)
PSU: Corsair HX 620W ATX2.2 Modular (£99.86)
HDD: 2x Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB in RAID 0 (2 x £70.49)
TOTAL: £1,125.43
===================================================

For OC/ing, the target is to get 3.2GHz 24/7 stable @ 400FSB with a x8 multiplier. I'd like to push it further than that but any more is a bonus.

Anyway, any advice/issues/comments you can think of would be very welcome. I'll highlight a few things that I'd particularly like help with, though anything else that you can draw attention to would be great!

1. I've chosen the P180 because it fits into the quiet/cool ethos. I'm not into hardcore silence but from the pics in this article it looks like the top/rear exhaust fans will compliment the Scythe Ninja really well. Lots of possibilities for different push/pull setups with different fans. Has anyone had any good results with the P180/Ninja combo?

1b. I wonder about using the Tuniq Tower as an alternative to the Ninja. At low airflow it performs equally with the Ninja, but outstrips its performance significantly as airflow increases. But is that extra cooling really needed? And is it worth the extra weight, considering the Tower is nearly 1kg with fan and more top-heavy than the Ninja? I also think the broader fins on the ninja may allow the exhaust fans on the P180 to get better airflow throughout the case in general, while the tight-packed fins of the Tuniq Tower may act like a big block. Think it'll make any difference?

2. Still on the P180, is the compartmentalised interior going to be a big problem in the future with the trend towards bigger components? Will this case fit nVidia 8800 series graphics cards without chassis modification, for instance?

3. Ultimately, is the P180 WORTH the extra hassle? Does it run quieter/cooler than other cases? Or should I save myself the bother and go with a more traditional tower case?

4. I include the EVGA mainboard for future-proofing, so that there is scope to upgrade the board with two nVidia DX10 cards in SLI once they become more cost-effective. But is it worth it? Will SLI become the norm or remain the precarious reserve of the money-no-object hardcore gamers? Would I regret just buying a P5B Deluxe and pocketing the ninety notes' difference?

4b. Tying in with Question 4a, if it's not really worth the money to go SLI, would I regret downsizing the Corsair 620W PSU to the 520W version that costs £30 less?

5. I've heard very differing reports on the EVGA mobo's stabililty and overclockability. Some claim the same overclockability as the Intel 965/975 chipsets, others have voiced skepticism about the 680i chipset, complaining of memory timing bugs and crackly audio. Does anyone have any experience with this chipset, and can they offer any definitive answers on its overclockability and stability? Are any kinks in the system likely to be ironed out with BIOS revisions? What sort of OC'ing targets can I realistically expect with this mobo?

6. As for the E6600, obviously this is becoming an OC'ers chip of choice. But some of you guys on the boards are talking about Intel releasing some new chips next month. Is this true? If so, what are the repercussions? Is it worth buying the E6600 now, or will they drop in value drastically in a month or two? Would it be worth saving money and going with an E6300 and buying a new chip later on?

That's all for now. A HUGE THANKYOU to anyone who bothered to read this all.

Look forward to hearing your opinions guys!

 

[Orison]

Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it hugely Especially since you must get asked this question more or less 5 times a day.

On your advice I've ditched the P180 and looked at the Lian-li options. They're the proverbial Rolls Royce of casebuilding, I always hoped I'd be able to budget one into a new build one day and then I'd have a case for life

I'm falling in love with the V1100, gonna go and read some reviews of it now!

What do people think of my reasoning over not getting an 8800-series card atm? The way I see it, DX10 isn't going to be required in games for at least a year, and by that time the cards will be much more reasonably priced. Getting 120+FPS in everything at the minute IS very slick, but you can't actually see the difference between that and 70FPS anyway. So, I reckon, get a mid-high range DX9 card for now (and the X1950XT is very reasonable at ~£160) and upgrade to SLI DX10s sometime next winter...Sensible?

 

[Orison]

Billy, you use the PC-7 case, can you tell me what configuration the fans are in? I've seen some reviews saying it has a 120mm intake and 120mm exhaust, and an 80mm fanless blowhole on-top, while elsewhere it says that it comes with one 120mm and one 80mm fan.

It looks like a lot of case for the money. The difference between that and the P60 Plus seems to be some ducting and a couple of extra ancillary fans.

Hooo boy, decisions decisions!

[PS Sorry I keep bumping this thread btw ]

 

[Orison]

Thanks, that helps a lot

It's either that or go all-out and get one of either the PC-767 or the v1100 PLUS. But I can't decide which one of the latter two I would prefer as my extravagant option! They both boast the top-notch Lian Li build quality, both have silencing put in (the V1100 significantly more so, however), both use 120mm fans for plenty of airflow...heck, how do you choose? The 767 sure is pretty...

 

[Orison]

Well I'm almost done but still hesitating a little bit, mostly over the case. I do have my heart set on a Lian-Li after all the recommendations I've been getting. Considering my build, can anyone give me a few final words of advice?

The best value option seems to be the PC-7 (thanks Billy for your help here). 120mm fans on intake and exhaust, all-aluminium, and £60 odd? Wow My only worry would be its diminutive size. I imagine it will fit a Tuniq Tower, but it might be a bit squashy in there alongside a couple of HDD and the possibility of a big DX10 card or two in the future.

The other option would be to spend more and get one of the bigger cases in the beefier 2mm grade aluminium, and therefore get a case that'll last forever. The V600 seemed initally to fit the bill, but loses one intake fan and doesn't fit a tower HSF. Next I looked at the PC-101, whose aesthetics I like and which appears a good size, but I've heard the front air intake is essentially useless as it's blocked by the door.

Which leave the obvious choice would be the V1000; but as other posters have pointed out, it's a lot for a midi tower at £130, and for £20 more you can get the V2000, so if you're in the market for a premium-grade case, you might as well make installation and upgrading easy on yourself and get the server-size option. I like the V1100 as well, but its main criticism has obviously been the expense (£155) considering it's a midi-size chassis. Personally I like the PC-767 too, but people have said this is an older case whose design is starting to be outmoded, though I'd like more details about why people feel like this.

So by following this mad logic to its conclusion I end up faced between the PC-7, great value for money but perhaps a little on the small side for upgrading, and a behemothic V2000 at £100 dearer. The V2000 would probably last me a lifetime, frankly I could be buried in it at that size, but it does seem like overkill. What to do? What to do?

Damn you, Lian Li, for making such aspirational cases! Damn you!

 

[Orison]

Well it's been nearly 3 days of deliberating and researching, but I'm just about ready to click buy So if you have a criticism or suggestion, speak now, or forever hold your peace!



As you can see I switched the E6600 for the E6400 as I intend to overclock it. My reasoning is outlined in this thread. I'm still waiting on more feedback over this decision though, as I don't want to skimp on the CPU and hobble my whole system.

The CPU change also led me to change my mind, and save some money, by going with the DS3 mobo. I'm not convinced of the necessity for SLI just yet, and seeing as the DS3 is so cheap, I can always swap out later without feeling like I've lost much. I'm still skeptical over the nForce 680 chipset, and for overclockability on an Allendale chip I'm led to believe the Intel 965 is the way to go. And I've gone with the PC-7 case, which seems ideal for my needs and my wallet, though I'm still wavering over the V2000's charms

Which, all in all, puts me nicely under budget at £976, saving a couple of hundred quid which I can put towards a Wii!

 

[Orison]

Done and done!
I threw a new DVD-RW drive in as well which brought the final cost to within inches of a level grand (£998!) so it all conforms pretty much exactly to my original manifesto

A massive THANK YOU to all of those who helped me with their technical expertise and informed opinions during my new build. I'd never have been able to make a final decision without you guys.

First fully new build in 4 years, I can't wait for the bits and pieces to arrive! I will let you all know how the OC'ing etc goes.

Merry Xmas guys

 

[Orison]

if you after silence you will prob need a diff cooler on yoru gfx card

Yeah I've heard reports of the XT's noisy fan, but I thought I'd see how it goes first and mod it later if I can't put up with it I'm not into hardcore silence or anything, I mentioned that I wanted the system to be reasonably quiet because I'm not into hardcore air cooling. Basically I just don't want my system sounding like a turbine. Otherwise I wouldn't have chosen 7200.10s for my RAID0 array either: some are quiet, and have a small sticker on the spindle, while others don't and are among the noisiest SATA hard disks out there. Performance for price is the bottom line for me And besides, if I have bad luck and do get the noisy Barracudas, I can always sell them on Ebay if I can't live with the noise, and try, try again!

 

[Orison]

very nice system, just wondering do u need to buy the thermal compound/paste stuff? i got told it came pre-applied.

Most coolers tend to come with some sort of thermal compound, but not all thermal compounds are created equal Arctic Silver is an old stalwart among OCers, offering excellent thermal conductivity, though these days a few people are experimenting with ceramique or easier-to-apply liquid compounds.

I just stuck with the arctic silver because it's good stuff and will do just fine. I goes with what I knows The difference between 1 good-quality compound and another only ever amounts to maybe 1 or 2oC anyway.

 

[Orison]

Which was very loud even idle at the desktop. Straight away ordered an Arctic cooler which helped an awful lot with both noise and temp.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind I do think it's a good card for the money, the reviews I've seen give it a good 25-30FPS over the X1950 Pro in Half Life 2 and the other typical gaming benchies, which is a big return (talking about a 50% difference) on performance for £20 more. Gamers pay far more for far less performance gain in other aspects of their system (such as buying £400 DDR800 3-4-3-9 RAM instead of £200 on DDR800 4-4-4-12) so it seems to me like £20 well spent.

So you'd recommend the Arctic cooler as a good quiet replacement? Appreciate the recommendation

 

[Orison]

Yeah, hence my decision to go with the Corsair Dominator over the GeIL myself. I could have gone with the GeIL and got an E6600, and with a x9 multiplier I'd never have needed to ask the FSB/RAM to go over 400 to have a shot at 3.6GHz. The GeIL is perfectly good stuff and will do what it says on the tin, and a bit beyond. But I trust the Corsair's quality and, since it's Micron D9 based, its overclockability. It was a bit of a judgement call but I know that the Corsair will last me a long while, and give good service if I ever go for water cooling and whatnot. Still not sure whether my judgement was in error though: just have to cross my fingers that my E6400's a clocker.

Still, there's no real rule of thumb on high vs midrange components. I mean, I contradict the above principle by going for the X1950XT over the 8800GTS. The extra £130 will give you astronomically high framerates, but the performance difference isn't actually perceptible from a card doing 90FPS (i.e. the XT) to the human eye in current-generation games. While it would be nice to fit a DX10 card and forget about it, I think it's worth waiting until DX10 games start coming out to get one, when they'll surely be cheaper. And the difference in cost gave me enough space in the budget to run a 640GB RAID array, and upgrade my PSU from the 520W Corsair to the 620W. It just fits my intentions for the system better. Those that do buy 8800 cards now will enjoy the benefits of knowing they won't need another GFX card for 2 years at least, and that it will improve the visuals of current-generation games with its anti-aliasing and anisotropy overrides.

You pays your money, you takes your choice. If only I wasn't indecisive by nature, I'm already worried if I made the right choice! *nervous* Guess we'll find out on Tuesday

 

[Orison]

I always get "twitchy" when spending more than £500. Seems to be better as I'm getting older. I suppose I've bought a few cars and a house in the last 2 years.

Sounds like you thought it all through though. I'm sure you'll be well chuffed

Cheers mate If you want twitchy, me and the missus are considering buying a house in the near future, whenever it comes up I look like I've stepped on a railway powerline