New Office - Server advice - Especially Storage

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We are moving to a new large office and I am taking the opportunity to update our IT systems. So I am posting this so I get some input and advice from people on this forum. I would be grateful of any advice that can be offered. I am thinking of a budget of about £20,000 (Less will always make the boss happier :) )

At the moment we have several NAS devices which have been built in house (A mixture of Windows XP and SUSE server machines). The storage capacity on these ranges from 1TB to 2TB and the storage amount is not enough at all. These NAS devices don’t have 2 network ports or 2 PSUs and there is no load balancing. All this has worked before because the company was quite small. But the company is now growing quickly and we are now starting to struggle. We create maps and 3D Maps, so a lot of data comes in and a lot of number crunching is done by our processors (Users). There are network switches spread about everywhere at the moment, but in the new office there will be only 2 x 48 port switches. I am also gaining a dedicated server room. All CAT6 cables are in, but not terminated (This includes the CAT6 cable for all the IP phones), so we are going to have fun :o .

We can split our users into 3 groups (Simplified):

Group A – These people process 200mb to 1Gb files but the data is more like video files and so it is more like just reading the data. They do of course at the end stick it all together to create a final image which before it is stitched together involves 100,000’s of really small files.

Group B – These people create 2D and 3D images, which involve a lot of number crunching and filtering. These files range from 100MB to 10GB.

Group C – CAD department. These people stick all the data together creating the finished charts.

There are also a lot of other type of data processing and of course report writing. I want to give Group A and B at least 12TB of storage each.

We are also going to implement an Exchange Server for our Emails. At the moment we have our email system with BT which is horrible and restrictive.

NB...I know what I am going to do with daily and weekly backups (NAS).


OPTION 1

Dell PowerEdge R710 - SBS 2008 Standard (30 users to start with) -> Intel® Xeon® E5520, 2.26Ghz, 12GB Ram. Report folders and final images also stored on this server maybe (Work well where they are now).

2 x Netgear Readynas 3200 – 11TB or 22TB (7200rpm SATA HDDs, RAID 0, 1, 5,6 and X-RAID2)
http://netgear.com/Products/Storage/ReadyNAS3200.aspx?for=Business+Networking

2x GIGABIT, STACKABLE SMART SWITCHES - GS748TS (48 Ports)
http://www.netgear.co.uk/stackable_smart_switch_gs724ts_gs748ts.php


OPTION 2

Dell PowerEdge R710 - SBS 2008 Standard (30 users to start with) -> Intel® Xeon® E5520, 2.26Ghz, 12GB Ram

2x Dell PowerVault MD1200, Direct Attached Storage (Connected to the Dell PowerEdge R710)
Each with 11TB (1TB SAS 7200rpm x 12)

2x GIGABIT, STACKABLE SMART SWITCHES - GS748TS (48 Ports)
http://www.netgear.co.uk/stackable_smart_switch_gs724ts_gs748ts.php

Will there be problems having everything connected to one server (The two MD1200) other than if it dies? The R710 does have 4 Ethernet ports. Should I be thinking of having another 'simple' server (SBS2008) running the direct attached storage units?

OPTION 3

Dell PowerEdge R710 - SBS 2008 Standard (30 users to start with) -> Intel® Xeon® E5520, 2.26Ghz, 12GB Ram

For Group A - 1x Dell PowerVault MD1200, Direct Attached Storage (Connected to the Dell PowerEdge R710)
With 11TB (1TB SAS 7200rpm x 12)

For Group B - 1 x Netgear Readynas 3200 – 11TB or 22TB (7200rpm SATA HDDs, RAID 0, 1, 5,6 and X-RAID2) and put fast drives into each workstation for processing the data locally.
http://netgear.com/Products/Storage/ReadyNAS3200.aspx?for=Business+Networking

2x GIGABIT, STACKABLE SMART SWITCHES - GS748TS (48 Ports)
http://www.netgear.co.uk/stackable_smart_switch_gs724ts_gs748ts.php


How much do I have to worry about cpu speeds?

I would be grateful for any pointers you clever people can offer.... ;)

Thanks,

Crazyswede
 
Thanks a lot for your reply! I will have a look at what you have said. Why do you recommend HP over Dell?

It's going to be about 30 users with up to 15 of those users who will be doing the heavy work.

Does RAID 6 perform better than RAID5? I know raid uses 1 HDD for parity and RAID 6 uses 2 HDDs for parity.


EDIT.. What REALLY irritates me with HP is that you can’t customise their servers in the UK but you can in the USA :mad: They have lost business from me in the past, regarding workstations, because of that.
 
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I want to thank you all for all the effort you guys have put in so far and I look forward to hearing more. I am going to discus everything you guys have said with my colleague tomorrow. I am also going to look more into HP as well and contact them.

Regarding Dell and DAS there seems to be 2 models to choose from (In my eyes):


MD1200 (New) 12 SAS HDDs (Includes RAID PERC H800A Controller Card)

450GB 15000rpm HDDs - 4.50TB in RAID 6 (RAID5 4.950TB) - £6,709.00
600GB 15000rpm HDDs - 6.00TB in RAID 6 (RAID5 6.600TB) - £8,749.00
1.00TB 7200rpm HDDs - 10.0TB in RAID 6 (RAID5 11.00TB) - £6,109.00

MD1000 15 SAS HDDs (Includes RAID PERC6E 512MB CONTROLLER)

450GB 15000rpm HDDs - 5.85TB in RAID 6 (RAID5 6.300TB)- £7,900.00
600GB 10000rpm HDDs - 7.80TB in RAID 6 (RAID5 8.400TB)- £8,950.00
600GB 15000rpm HDDs - 7.80TB in RAID 6 (RAID5 8.400TB)- £9,840.00
1.00TB 7200rpm HDDs - 13.0TB in RAID 6 (RAID5 14.00TB) - £7,180.00

As everything will get backed up to a NAS every night, I should get away with RAID5 and gain another 450GB or 600GB in storage.
 
Sorry, I was not very clear before, I was talking about TWO 48 port stackable switches giving us a total of 96 ports. I am giving each user access to 2 network sockets incase they need to use a second workstation or their laptop.

Not touching virtualisation... maybe in the future.
 
What do you guys think of the HP X1600 NAS? Its seems to offer good performance and good value.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/e...-3954626-3954626-3954626-3954714-4059229.html

Processor (1) Intel® Xeon® E5520 (2.26GHz); Standard
Memory 6 GB DDR3 Registered (RDIMM) with ECC Capabilities
Storage capacity 12 TB Raw Internal SATA; 96 TB Raw External SATA; 5.4 TB Raw Internal SAS; Maximum configuration
Drive count 2; Included
Storage drive (2) 146 GB 6G 10K SFF Dual-port SAS (internal for O/S mirror); Included
Storage expansion MSA60, MSA70
Network controller HP NC362i Integrated Dual Port Gigabit Server Adapter
Storage controller (1) Smart Array P212/256MB BBWC; Included
Expansion slots At least one open PCIe expansion slot
Compatible operating systems Microsoft® Windows Storage Server 2008 Standard x64 Edition; Pre-installed
Number of simultaneous users (local + network) 25 -; Maximum depends on number of drives and RAID configuration
Form factor 2U
Product dimensions (W x D x H) 58.42 x 24.13 x 90.17 cm
What's in the box

X1600 Network Storage System with HP X1000 Automated Storage Manager, (2) x 146 GB SFF SAS drives in rear slots, up to (12) user-selected hard drives in front slots, (2) rack-compatible power cords, documentation kit, Windows Storage Server 2008 EULA, System Restore kit, iLO2 Advanced License, Microsoft Certificate of Authenticity.

So instead of getting a Dell with Exchange and have all the storage connected to the server with DAS boxes I can get a seperate SBS 2008 server and NAS boxes. That should split the load and everything would not go down if the server goes down.

What do you guys think of the Windows Storage Server 2008 running on these HP boxes?

Was thinking something like this:

2 x HP aw528a X1600 NAS
24 x Seagate Cheetah 600GB 15000rpm SAS
2 x MSA60 (12 drive expansion for x1600 SAS)
24 x Seagate ES 1TB 1TB SAS 7200rpm

or

24 x Samsung F3 1TB SATA 7200rpm

Thats about £21000 on storage.
 
I have not properly checked what you get with the X1600. It would be annoying if the carriers are not included. I know Dell does not include them but I can source them from somewhere else (£29 each). I guess that HP will support everything including the OS drives except for the drives I put in. Would it better using their drives. In theory the drive self support is the easy part (In a way).
 
I think spending that kind of money on a NAS isnt something i'd want to do... but I guess 20tb isnt ever going to be cheap...

In what way. I guess there is no other way. I am trying to split into into fast access storage and slower but more storage so I sort of get the best of both worlds without spending too much money.
 
Me again :)

What is better (Performance and data safety)?

RAID5 with 12 x 450GB 15000rpm SAS = 4.95TB

or

RAID10 with 12 x 1TB 7200rpm SAS = 6TB
 
It's very marginal to be honest, assuming there's no controller bottleneck...

12x SATA in RAID10 should give something like 600 IOPS minimum, 12x 15k SAS in RAID5 should give...about 600 IOPS minimum. SAS will likely perform better in real life due to reduced seek times but it'll be fairly marginal.

Personally with so many disks (and them being a reasonable size) I wouldn't be happy with RAID5, but I wouldn't much like RAID10 either (though RAID10 is ever so slightly better, if you loose the right disks you can loose more than 1, RAID5 is you loose more than 1 your data is gone).

I'd drop it to RAID6 or RAID10 + hotspare and suck up the loss of space.

Oh - all that's write IOPS of course, read IOPS are merely a function of the number of disks and their IOPS so 12x SAS could be up to 50% quicker than 12x SATA

Thanks for the reply. I am slowly getting there. The 1tb drives I mentioned was SAS drives but running at 7200rpm

If I went with HP these are the options I have: 0/1/1+0/5/5+0 (NOTE: Smart Array Advanced Pack License Key upgrade (516471-B21) is required to enable RAID 6, 6+0.)
 
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