New server for office

doobee

doobee

doobee

Associate
Joined
22 Jul 2010
Posts
13
Hello, my company is looking to get a new server for 5-6 computers. We have been quoted for a proliant ML110 G6 which seems to be right for how much we will be using it. The quote also states

"4GB 2Rx8 PC3-10600E-9 UDIMM kit unbuffered"

for £360 per module. is there a reason why server RAM is more expensive than desktop RAM?

The same question also for hard drives, as we have been quoted for what seems like a normal 250gig SATAII harddrive for £83, but i know you can get samsung spinpoint F3 1TB for under £50?

Thanks.
 
Yes, there are plenty of reasons.

Server ram is error correcting generally and also tested thoroughly for the server it's designed for. Ditto with the hard disks

Dont be tempted to skimp on things like this, I've seen it go wrong so many times
 
Server RAM is more expensive - different technologies such as ECC push the price up. The part code for that 4GB DIMM should be 500672-B21, so Google will show if that's a good price or not.

Enterprise class HDs for servers are more expensive than standard desktop HDs - agan different specifications.

HP's 250GB drive isn't bad (price-wise) compared to a OEM Western Digital RE3 250GB drive but the difference on a HP qualified 1TB SATA drive vs the WD RE4 1TB can be approaching £200 per drive.
 
Thanks for your replies.

The ram is non-ecc and unbuffered so does that not basically make it the same as standard ram?

As with the harddrives, the hp one comes with a 1 year warranty, the WD RE 4 comes with a 5 year warranty, yet it costs more?

The server is only going to be acting as a place to back up the workstations to, and to run exchange server, so its not going to working nearly as hard as the workstations, which are running solidworks/autocad etc. If normal ram and normal harddrives are good enough for the workstations and have all proved reliable in the past, should it not be good enough for this server?

I understand that generally servers are much more important than work stations and need more reliable parts, but in our situation i dont think its really necessary.
 
If you are running exchange then you'll be needing a decent amount of ram and probably want a separate RAID1 disk setup for it too. (As you don't have many users you can get away with this in Ex 2010)
 
Exchange is i/o heavy and shouldn't be installed lightly... by the sounds of it you are a v.small outfit so why not look at using a hosted email solution and backing up to a NAS box?

Will greatly reduce the skillset required to administrate and will bring costs down whilst improving reliability.
 
doobee said:
Thanks for your replies.

The ram is non-ecc and unbuffered so does that not basically make it the same as standard ram?

As with the harddrives, the hp one comes with a 1 year warranty, the WD RE 4 comes with a 5 year warranty, yet it costs more?

The server is only going to be acting as a place to back up the workstations to, and to run exchange server, so its not going to working nearly as hard as the workstations, which are running solidworks/autocad etc. If normal ram and normal harddrives are good enough for the workstations and have all proved reliable in the past, should it not be good enough for this server?

I understand that generally servers are much more important than work stations and need more reliable parts, but in our situation i dont think its really necessary.
Click to expand...

HP don't always put ECC in the description for RAM parts. ML110 G6 QuickSpecs:

2GB (1x2GB) or 4GB (2x2GB) Standard/16GB Maximum, using PC3-10600E DDR3 Unbuffered (UDIMM) ECC memory, operating up to 1333MHz
Click to expand...

Your point about the warranty is spot on - it grates with me that HP charge a premium but stiff you with a lower warranty. For HP, I think it's about selling you up to SAS drives. FWIW, I've built a couple of ProLiant ML boxes with non-hot swap drives recently and used RE3/RE4 drives rather than the HP models (which are usuall WD RE models anyway!). I just make sure we hold replacement drives in-stock to allow for a quick replacement and then RMA them back to WD (not that any have failed yet).

I would certainly explore ethos's suggestion about looking at a hosted Exchange solution.
 
ethos - thats exactly what we're trying to decide at the moment as our emails are hosted externally, when we go for advise off IT companies they always advise to go for a server running SBS 2008. The only advantage i can see is that all of our companies emails will be in one place on a RAID 1 setup and easily backed up and taken off site. I know this can be done with a NAS but every night will you not have to copy over your entire outlook file, mine is about 2gig, and do this for each employee? I know this isn't a huge issue, but it will mean 10gig of data being copied onto the server every night.

#chri5# - so the ram is ECC then. Well just like what you do with the hard drives, would it not be easier to use standard ram and have some spare in case it breaks? and save money in the process.

Another question - my computer has outlook and the others in the office use outlook express, if you buy SBS 2008 with 5 CALs, does this mean you can install outlook on 5 computers as part of the package, or do you need to go out and buy outlook for each computer you need to run it on?
 
The CALs that come with SBS have nothing to do with the office suites, so you would have to purchase them separately.

SBS seems overkill to me... not only on basic hardware costs but maintenance and support contracts (sounds like you would be using an external company).

What hosted email solution are you using at the moment?

When you say "easily taken off site", you would have to purchase additional hardware and possibly software to make this happen... and then design / setup the backup solution.

10GB of data everyday really isn't anything to worry about... for that number of clients you could just get a little cheap gigabit switch if transfer time becomes an issue (£60?).

There's a whole load more I could write but I'll just give you the my opinion on the basics .
 
doobee said:
#chri5# - so the ram is ECC then. Well just like what you do with the hard drives, would it not be easier to use standard ram and have some spare in case it breaks? and save money in the process
Click to expand...

This is the worst possible thinking when it comes to servers.

If you dont want to do it properly then I'd advise you find a consultant who will - its not something you can afford to take risks on
 
doobee said:
#chri5# - so the ram is ECC then. Well just like what you do with the hard drives, would it not be easier to use standard ram and have some spare in case it breaks? and save money in the process.

Another question - my computer has outlook and the others in the office use outlook express, if you buy SBS 2008 with 5 CALs, does this mean you can install outlook on 5 computers as part of the package, or do you need to go out and buy outlook for each computer you need to run it on?
Click to expand...

I don't know if the ML110 G6 will support non-ECC RAM. You could save some money by going for Kingston matched RAM rather than HPs own.

Personally, I wouldn't put RAM in the same boat as the HDs. A problem with the HDs should be covered by RAID. Whilst your data is at risk if a drive fails (assuming RAID 1 or 5), you can then replace the failed drive as soon as you want but the server is going to keep running. Problems with cheap memory (though I would generally be happy using Kingston matched parts) is going to cause immediate problems - BSODs etc.

SBS 2003 included Outlook 2003 licenses in it's CALs but that was pulled from SBS 2008.
 
doobee said:
ethos - thats exactly what we're trying to decide at the moment as our emails are hosted externally, when we go for advise off IT companies they always advise to go for a server running SBS 2008.
Click to expand...

they say that because they can charge you to install it, support it and to fix it when it goes wrong..

unless you need something your current setup does not offer keep it hosted externally

some points to consider

1) your server is destroyed in a fire, you have no email for 2 weeks
2) your broadban breaks you have no email till its fixed (depending on the business people can still use phones / home connection / 3g to get email
3) you have a virus that trash's your server - no email for a week
4) your server goes wrong and your support company cannot get someone out for 4 days
5) if you have a server email problem you could be looking at at bill of £800 a day toget it fixed..

if you have it hosted

1) its in a data center, with air con and UPS'
2) 24/7 support
3) cheaper
4) more reliable
5) chances are its a virtual server so if the server blows up its put on another server

I have moved me small business customers to hosted solution (except where they need exchange)
 
Thanks for your help ethos,

do you know if you can use outlook express with exchange server or do you need outlook?

We use a company that hosts our email and website, we have 10 email accounts/addresses and we download our emails of their server. if we get exchange server can we cut them out of the loop then?

I realise that we will need additional hardware to take the companies data off site but this is essential as we dont want all copies of data in one room in case of theft/fire/flooding etc. Im starting to think a NAS box is the way to go, and i think some come with an option where you can connect an portable hard drive, press one button, and it will back up the NAS.
 
ethos said:
Exchange is i/o heavy and shouldn't be installed lightly... by the sounds of it you are a v.small outfit so why not look at using a hosted email solution and backing up to a NAS box?

Will greatly reduce the skillset required to administrate and will bring costs down whilst improving reliability.
Click to expand...

did not read this before posting..

this is exactly what I would advise as well.....
 
doobee said:
Thanks for your help ethos,

do you know if you can use outlook express with exchange server or do you need outlook?

We use a company that hosts our email and website, we have 10 email accounts/addresses and we download our emails of their server. if we get exchange server can we cut them out of the loop then?

I realise that we will need additional hardware to take the companies data off site but this is essential as we dont want all copies of data in one room in case of theft/fire/flooding etc. Im starting to think a NAS box is the way to go, and i think some come with an option where you can connect an portable hard drive, press one button, and it will back up the NAS.
Click to expand...

1) do you know if you can use outlook express with exchange server or do you need outlook? works fine...

2) We use a company that hosts our email and website, we have 10 email accounts/addresses and we download our emails of their server. if we get exchange server can we cut them out of the loop then? you need to get professional help here, you would need to update your MX records

3) backups you really need some backup software, external USB drive to be taked off site and a nas (or normal usb) to be used for daily backups...
 
I think a NAS box is clearly the way to go then, and use some shutdown script to back up the necessary folders to the NAS every night. So every bit of information will be on the individual computers, on the NAs which will have a RAID 1 setup, and an off site copy of the NAS. Therefore all information will be on 4 separate hard drives.

Can anyone recommend a good NAS box?
 
Take a look at the Iomega Storcenter ix2-220s.

http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/11/04/review-iomega-storcenter-ix2-200-nas/

Backup and Restore: The ix2 makes backing up your drives almost a fully autonomous procedure. Using what Iomega calls “Copy Jobs”, you can set the source and destination of the files, put the job on a reoccurring schedule, even tell it to only import new and modified files. You can set up multiple Copy Jobs for different drives or for different locations. Want to backup another external drive every week? Not a problem. Do you want pictures to be saved in one folder, and important documents in another? Just a few clicks away. The ix2 also has full Time Machine and Retrospect support to back up your computer.
One of the cooler features of the ix2 is the QuikTransfer button. You can assign one Job to the QuikTransfer button located on the front of the device. Now you can activate that Job, even if you’re computer isn’t up and running. Its really useful for downloading any new files you need very quickly. Just pop a flash drive directly into the unit, press the button, and a few thousand revolutions later, you’re up to date.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom