New SFF Rig for University (SN21G5?)

[Air Marshal]

New SFF Rig for University (Update: SK22G2?)

First post, first rig, etc etc...

As the first year of university is drawing near I've decided it's finally time to replace this old Toshiba M30-304 with a semi-powerful SFF, a machine I can actually upgrade somewhat. I originally planned to run a SN21G5 in this rig, but since I've read here that 939 may be on its way out, if anybody can come up with a solid Conroe spec within budget with the V300 or SD37P2 or going socket AM2 using the SN27P2, I am also considering these options should the SN21G5 not cut it. Basically, the rig needs to:

• ...be built around a budget of £1000, give or take £200.
• ...run AutoCAD, Matlab, Adobe CS and Civ 4 smoothly.

I'm planning on using this with a 17" 1280x1024 LCD, but no preripherals are required in the spec. This is what I've come up with so far, but there's probably a lot of changes that can be made, and I'm sure I'm missing something. Note that this something is NOT the RAM; In this particular build, I would probably use OCZ Platinum CAS2 sticks rather than the G.Skill, but judging by stock I will need to source these elsewhere:

FS-065-SH Shuttle XPC SN21G5 Aluminium Barebones System - AMD 64 (Socket 939) (FS-065-SH)
£184.90 £184.90
CP-127-AM AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4400+ (Socket 939) - Retail (ADA4400CDBOX) (CP-127-AM)
£134.95 £134.95
GX-011-EA EVGA GeForce 7900 GT "Signature Series" 256MB GDDR3 HDTV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-011-EA)
£234.95 £234.95
HD-087-WD Western Digital Raptor 74GB WD740ADFD 10,000RPM SATA 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-087-WD)
£98.95 £98.95
HD-078-SE Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB ST3320620AS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-078-SE)
£59.95 £59.95
CD-033-NE NEC ND4571 16x16 DVD±RW Dual Layer LabelFlash ReWriter (Black) - OEM (CD-033-NE)
£22.95 £22.95
Subtotal £736.65
VAT £128.92
Total £865.57

OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC3200 Dual Channel Platinum Series EL-DDR CAS2 (OCZ4002048ELDCPE-K) (MY-057-OC)

Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Edam]

IF you want upgradeability, you'll want the SN27P2 and an AM2 CPU. You could wait for the SD37P2, but that could take a while and they're likely to be around the £400+ mark.

 

[hp7909]

This should be (definitely) faster & cheaper, but still small form factor

C2D review & benchies here if not convinced

 

[nade]

This should be (definitely) faster & cheaper, but still small form factor

C2D review & benchies here if not convinced

I'd also recommend going for a Sugo over a shuttle. Far easier/cheaper to upgrade the mobo/cpu in the future

 

[Dureth]

Another vote for the Sugo here. Nicer looking than the shuttle in my opinion and it will be a lot easier to upgrade in the future.

 

[Air Marshal]

Are there any drawbacks to using a Lian-Li V300 as the chassis rather than the Sugo? Personally, I'm not a big fan of the design.

 

[Herminator]

V300 can't take long graphics cards over 9" unless you do a little bit of dremelling. But then it's cheaper than a Sugo and slightly higher quality.

I have a V300b and love it. With a black dvd drive and black IMon VFD, it looks great.

 

[Air Marshal]

Would I have any trouble with space constraints with this spec?
I'm mainly looking at the size of the cooler and the X1900:

CA-077-LL Lian-Li PC-V300 Aluminum Micro ATX Mini Tower Case - Black (CA-077-LL)
£67.95 £67.95
HS-003-SY Scythe Ninja Plus Heatpipe CPU Cooler (Socket 478, 754, 939, 940, LGA755) (HS-003-SY)
£31.95 £31.95
MY-058-GL GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 800MHz Ultra Low Latency DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB6400UDC) (MY-058-GL)
£129.95 £129.95
CA-009-TG Tagan TG580-U15 580W ATX2.01 Easycon SLi Compliant Modular Silent PSU (CA-009-TG)
£69.95 £69.95
MB-004-AK Asrock Conroe945G-DVI (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard (MB-004-AK)
£44.95 £44.95
CP-135-IN Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 "LGA775 Allendale" 1.86GHz (1066FSB) - OEM (CP-135-IN)
£107.95 £107.95
CD-030-NE NEC ND4570 16x16 DVD±RW Dual Layer ReWriter (Black) - OEM (CD-030-NE)
£21.95 £43.90
HD-087-WD Western Digital Raptor 74GB WD740ADFD 10,000RPM SATA 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-087-WD)
£98.95 £98.95
HD-078-SE Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB ST3320620AS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-078-SE)
£59.95 £59.95
GX-124-SP Sapphire ATI Radeon X1900 GT 256MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-124-SP)
£119.95 £119.95
Subtotal £775.45
VAT £135.71
Total £911.16

Update: Yeah, that cooler is going to be too big to fit under the drive cage. Should I sub the E6300 and the Ninja for a retail E6600? Or is there another cooler which is simlar in performance but under 4" high?

 

[jollygreengiant]

Get yourself a SUGO I changed about 2 months ago and have been much happier:

Full power supply (you can have almost as many watts as you like)
Increased space = better airflow and less bl**dy fiddly
Better upgradability
You can get a proper cooler rather than that shuttle ICE junk - (Zalman CNPS8000 is the one i've got and i've found it very good)
upto 5 PCI slots, 2 hard drives and 2 Cd spaces.

Now put that in your shuttle and smoke it

Also if I were you - I wouldn't bother with the WD Raptor unless you really want it - because they are bl**dy loud.

my 2 cents

 

[Air Marshal]

Get yourself a SUGO I changed about 2 months ago and have been much happier:

Full power supply (you can have almost as many watts as you like)
Increased space = better airflow and less bl**dy fiddly
Better upgradability
You can get a proper cooler rather than that shuttle ICE junk - (Zalman CNPS8000 is the one i've got and i've found it very good)
upto 5 PCI slots, 2 hard drives and 2 Cd spaces.

Now put that in your shuttle and smoke it

Also if I were you - I wouldn't bother with the WD Raptor unless you really want it - because they are bl**dy loud.

my 2 cents

Are there any drawbacks to using a Lian-Li V300 as the chassis rather than the Sugo? Personally, I'm not a big fan of the design.

At the moment I'm looking for a replacement for the Scythe Ninja, and also if anybody knows whether the X1900 will fit in the V300.

 

[Herminator]

The V300 fits a full size PSU too

The cooler sits below the PSU, not the HDD's, you really want something low profile like a zalman 7000, or (what I went for) a Silverstone NT-03. The silverstone is great for airflow as it's fans line up nicely with the side panel fan on the case, it just needs slowing down a bit, I've just ordered a zalman fanmate to put on mine.

I'm not sure how well a modular PSU will fit, it may be too tight with the connections, I went for a Seasonic since they're good quality and nice and short (barely bigger than their 120mm fan)

I don't know how long the X1900 GT is, you may need to check. Can be easily fixed though.

For the DVD drive I went with a samsung, since it's 170mm, a bit shorter than most, not that it's hugely important at the moment, but it does leave a nice space behind the drive for if I want to install watercooling later....

 

[Air Marshal]

Okay, I've switched the cooler, DVDs and PSU around, and apparently the X1900 GT is 250mm/8.2" long:

CA-077-LL Lian-Li PC-V300 Aluminum Micro ATX Mini Tower Case - Black (CA-077-LL)
£67.95 £67.95
MY-058-GL GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 800MHz Ultra Low Latency DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB6400UDC) (MY-058-GL)
£139.95 £139.95
MB-004-AK Asrock Conroe945G-DVI (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard (MB-004-AK)
£44.95 £44.95
HD-087-WD Western Digital Raptor 74GB WD740ADFD 10,000RPM SATA 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-087-WD)
£98.95 £98.95
HD-078-SE Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB ST3320620AS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-078-SE)
£59.95 £59.95
GX-124-SP Sapphire ATI Radeon X1900 GT 256MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-124-SP)
£119.95 £119.95
CA-001-SS Seasonic S12 500W Silent ATX2.0 Power Supply (CA-001-SS)
£64.95 £64.95
HS-018-ZA Zalman FS-C77 Fatal1ty CPU Cooler - Retail (HS-018-ZA)
£33.00 £33.00
CP-135-IN Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 "LGA775 Allendale" 1.86GHz (1066FSB) - OEM (CP-135-IN)
£107.95 £107.95
CD-078-SA Samsung SH-S182D 18x18 DVD±RW ReWriter (Black) (CD-078-SA)
£20.95 £41.90
Subtotal £779.50
VAT £136.42
Total £915.92

 

[Herminator]

Well if it's 8.2" then it's fine, if it's 250mm then it's too long (without cutting a slot in the 3.5" bay)

You've chosen a CPU cooler based on a 120mm fan, it will most likely be too big, you need one of the 92mm versions.

 

[Air Marshal]

Argh, I don't have my unit conversions down today...

CA-077-LL Lian-Li PC-V300 Aluminum Micro ATX Mini Tower Case - Black (CA-077-LL)
£67.95 £67.95
MY-058-GL GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 800MHz Ultra Low Latency DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB6400UDC) (MY-058-GL)
£139.95 £139.95
MB-004-AK Asrock Conroe945G-DVI (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard (MB-004-AK)
£44.95 £44.95
HD-087-WD Western Digital Raptor 74GB WD740ADFD 10,000RPM SATA 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-087-WD)
£98.95 £98.95
HD-078-SE Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB ST3320620AS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-078-SE)
£59.95 £59.95
CA-001-SS Seasonic S12 500W Silent ATX2.0 Power Supply (CA-001-SS)
£64.95 £64.95
CP-135-IN Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 "LGA775 Allendale" 1.86GHz (1066FSB) - OEM (CP-135-IN)
£107.95 £107.95
CD-078-SA Samsung SH-S182D 18x18 DVD±RW ReWriter (Black) (CD-078-SA)
£20.95 £41.90
HS-022-ZA Zalman CNPS8000 Ultra Quiet Low Profile CPU Cooler (HS-022-ZA)
£25.95 £25.95
GX-114-SP Sapphire X1600 XT 256MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-114-SP)
£69.95 £69.95
Subtotal £722.45
VAT £126.43
Total £848.88

 

[Tute]

If you don't mind going without for a bit longer it might be worth waiting for the motherboards based on the Q965 chipset to become more available.

I've heard a rumour (unsure if it's true) that the 945 chipset tops out at 299MHz, making it less than suitable for Conroe overclocking (and you'd be mad not to overclock one of them).

Also it's a far more updated chipset, with a newer memory controller, so at stock speeds it should outperform the 945.

I'm putting together a Sugo system around an E6300, but i'm not spending a penny until the Q965 boards arrive.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

...next they'll be demanding a Sugo section to the forums

I'd say it looks like a good setup (however, I'd go with a SN27P2 if you're going AMD), and through personal experience I'd go with the 2GB OCZ Platinum RAM over the others.

 

[Air Marshal]

...next they'll be demanding a Sugo section to the forums

I'd say it looks like a good setup (however, I'd go with a SN27P2 if you're going AMD), and through personal experience I'd go with the 2GB OCZ Platinum RAM over the others.

Were you referring to the SN21G5 setup or the V300?

I also saw on the Shuttle site another AM2 barebones in the form of the SK22G2, which can be sourced cheaper due to lack of crossfire support and a smaller PSU. Should the Via chipset on this chassis be avoided, or is it fair game? If the chipset checks out, here's a prospective AM2 spec:

CP-172-AM AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5000+ 2.60GHz (Socket AM2) - Retail (CP-172-AM)
£189.95 £189.95
MY-058-GL GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 800MHz Ultra Low Latency DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB6400UDC) (MY-058-GL)
£124.95 £124.95
GX-124-SP Sapphire ATI Radeon X1900 GT 256MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-124-SP)
£119.95 £119.95
CD-078-SA Samsung SH-S182D 18x18 DVD±RW ReWriter (Black) (CD-078-SA)
£20.95 £20.95
HD-087-WD Western Digital Raptor 74GB WD740ADFD 10,000RPM SATA 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-087-WD)
£98.95 £98.95
HD-078-SE Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB ST3320620AS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-078-SE)
£59.95 £59.95
Subtotal £614.70
VAT £107.58
Total £722.28

+ Shuttle SK22G2 and possibly a PC50 PSU if 200W is not going to cut it.

 

[Air Marshal]

I've also heard that with the 7200.10 drives there's little point to getting a Raptor as well, so I may just run two 320GB drives or swap one out for a 3.5" bay to use later. Basically, since I won't be starting with any huge clocks, should I go with the Via chipset in the SK22G2 or avoid it like the plague?

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Well I have 2x 320GB 7200.10's and theyre amazing

Very good, quiet and fast...worth the cash too.

 

[hp7909]

{snip}Sapphire ATI Radeon X1900 GT 256MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-124-SP){snip}

That card is rubbish, gets 'licked' by the X1800XT! The GT bit is its achilles heel!

Also, did you have a look at the link I gave earlier, http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/07/14/intel_core_2_duo_processors/1.html? Because you would have noticed that the 5000+ is no match for the E6600