new spec?

helpimcrap · 8 May 2010 at 08:04

hi, i'm currently thinking of a building a new pc - just for the hell of it but it's not gonna be uber or anything.

my build knowledge extends to dual core athlons running DDR1s etc.

what is the performance increase to DDR2 and what extra can DDR 3 give you over that?

is dual core still the best option as i've noticed 4 cores were becoming more common a couple of years ago and now its 6!?

also what would be the ideal OC setup with say a budget of £500 all in including a 1080 24" monitor? something like this...http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-030-BQ&groupid=17&catid=510&subcat= and it doesn't have to be a 24" as 17" is whats currently used.

Marine-RX179 · 8 May 2010 at 09:48

If you need a new monitor included in that £500 budget, you pretty much only have around £350 for the PC itself...which is just around barely enough for building a AMD Athlon II X2 with a sub-£80 graphic card. If you want a decent Quad cores systems (i.e. Phenom II 955BE) with a decent entry level graphic card (i.e. HD5770 1GB), the system alone would cost around £500-£550.

helpimcrap · 8 May 2010 at 09:57

thats fair enough. i am so out of touch as the last one i built were sockets A and socket 939 systems so ages ago.

in that case i'll gorgo the monitor and toy with the idea of a base unit and worry about the monitor when its all done.

are ATI still better than nvidia?

Marine-RX179 · 8 May 2010 at 10:28

helpimcrap said:
are ATI still better than nvidia?

For the current generation graphic card (dx11 1st gen), nvidia has not yet released its budget/entry level range yet. So for sub £150 budget for graphic card, almost everyone get the HD5770 1GB (£120-£140), or for people that are gaming at resolution 1680x1050 or lower, they could consider getting the HD5750 512MB (around £90).

helpimcrap · 8 May 2010 at 23:12

fair enough. i was just thinking - i could get a 7900GT (?) off a friend for pennies so thats that sorted and i just wanted to know how much better DDR3 is than DDR1 or DDR2 just so i can see if it's so great its worth the extra £20 or something?

also how much ram should i be looking at now? i see you can buy 12gb kits etc but i've never had more than 2gb so unsure if i need more than 4gb?

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 8 May 2010 at 23:18

helpimcrap · 9 May 2010 at 08:11

thanks for that -will be very helpful i imagine as i haven't looked at it yet but about to...

helpimcrap · 9 May 2010 at 08:35

it will be phenon 955 quad core black edition (is that the multiplyer unlocked edition?) i think for £135.99 and i *might* have a 7900GT from a friend so its the motherboard and memory i'll be looking more closely at.

by the looks of it DDR3 1333mhz is a waste at the moment though due to speed increase over DDR2 800mhz? is that right that there is less than 5% difference in speed currently in the real world? is the 1600 that much better although i notice that price is quite reasonable for DDR3.

stulid · 9 May 2010 at 08:42

helpimcrap said:
it will be phenon 955 quad core black edition (is that the multiplyer unlocked edition?) i think for £135.99 and i *might* have a 7900GT from a friend so its the motherboard and memory i'll be looking more closely at.

by the looks of it DDR3 1333mhz is a waste at the moment though due to speed increase over DDR2 800mhz? is that right that there is less than 5% difference in speed currently in the real world? is the 1600 that much better although i notice that price is quite reasonable for DDR3.

it would be silly to buy an old DDR2 and memory when DDR3 is the latest tech.

All the good AMD motherboards are DDR3.

And the 955be CPU does have an unlocked multiplier, all the black edition chips do.

helpimcrap · 9 May 2010 at 09:00

stulid said:
it would be silly to buy an old DDR2 and memory when DDR3 is the latest tech.

All the good AMD motherboards are DDR3.

And the 955be CPU does have an unlocked multiplier, all the black edition chips do.

i understand that and if i were paying double to get more than the 5% increase it'd be worth it but if DDR3s not going to improve over the next year or 2 (without buying new stuff!) i really don't see the point or maybe i'm missing something. i just don't buy into the whole 'magpie' thing - ie its shinier so its better etc.

i dunno... :confused:

helpimcrap · 9 May 2010 at 16:09

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
This thread is worth looking at:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18142727

Anyway here are some builds I suggested:

Build One

Phenom II X2 550BE ~ £74

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-249-AM

Asus M4A785TD-V Evo ~ £75

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-355-AS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1481

Has an 8+2 phase VRM with cooling.

G.Skill Ripjaw 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C8 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit ~ £100

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-042-GS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1517

Samsung SpinPoint F3 500GB ~ £45

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-081-SA

SATA DVD rewriter ~ £15

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CD-099-SA&groupid=701&catid=10&subcat=

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CD-090-LG&groupid=701&catid=10&subcat=

Zalman Z7 Plus Midi Tower Case ~ £43

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-033-ZA

The total comes to around £499 excluding delivery.

If you are lucky you maybe able to unlock the X2 550BE to a quad core.

I assume that you don't need to include the price of an OS in the build.

got a thermaltake 480w PSU and a PCI-E 7600GT silent for now for £20 (was i ripped off? lol).

not going 1tb as i have 620gb in my main pc and i very rarely use a quarter of that!

two questions i have are:

1. how easy is to unlock cores (hence OCing)?

2. how much quicker are 2 v 4 v 6 cores? :confused:

tried to find literatue on it and can't.

it seems DDR2 isn't much cheaper than a DDR3 memory stick so it may well go that way.

does memory(DDR2/DDR3) still benefit from being 2 sticks ie dual channel?

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 9 May 2010 at 16:21

The only Thermaltake 480W PSUs I can find are from around 2004 and 2005 and TBH it would be worth getting a new PSU. Older PSUs distribute power more on the 3.3V and 5V lines than the 12V ones. However newer PSUs tend to have more power on the 12V lines as this is where most modern systems draw most of their power from.

The 7600GT will be fine for games upto around 2006.

Running two sticks of RAM puts less stress on the memory controller in the CPU than 4 sticks. The Athlon II and Phenom II processors have a dual channel memory controller.

Four cores will be fine for gaming ATM as six cores are only supported by a tiny number of games.

Also if you are using an IDE hard drive or a very old SATA disc it is still worth considering one of the newer generation SATA hard discs as these will be much quicker.

helpimcrap · 9 May 2010 at 16:29

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The only Thermaltake 480W PSUs I can find are from around 2004 and 2005 and TBH it would be worth getting a new PSU. Older PSUs distribute power more on the 3.3V and 5V lines than the 12V ones. However newer PSUs tend to have more power on the 12V lines as this is where most modern systems draw most of their power from.

The 7600GT will be fine for games upto around 2006.

Running two sticks of RAM puts less stress on the memory controller in the CPU than 4 sticks. The Athlon II and Phenom II processors have a dual channel memory controller.

Four cores will be fine for gaming ATM as six cores are only supported by a tiny number of games.

cheers for the input.

i'll certainly bear it in mind. what i'm going to do is buy a cheap £20 ATX case and fit it bit by bit.

how recent are 6 cores? or is it a bit like the DDR2 v DDR3 issue? lol

i've priced up a DDR2 combo of motherboard/CPU/Memory and it's interesting to note there was nothing in it tbh. performance wise theres nothing in it either/ how odd. :confused:

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 9 May 2010 at 16:43

The AMD six core processors have only been released a few weeks ago. Like I said a quad core will be fine!

Make sure that the case has decent ventilation otherwise the components will run hot.

I would look at the Casecom 6788 for around £30. However OcUK do not stock it!

Here are some pictures of the case:

http://www.tech-pc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&p=818565

helpimcrap · 10 May 2010 at 21:08

got this today:

Kingston ValueRAM 4Gb DDR3 1333 (2x2Gb) Memory Kit
Armor Black ATX Case, No PSU
Biostar A770E3 AM3, PCI-E, GBLan, ATX
and a 2nd hand thermaltake 480w purepower PSU.

installed it all and was annoyed to find the 7600GS won't fit as it's PCIE 1.0 and this board is PCIE 2.0. :mad:

looking at the net though PCIE 2.0 seems just to be the same fitment?!

stulid · 10 May 2010 at 21:49

they are the same fitment and backwards compatible, you sure its not agp?

lanzarobbie · 10 May 2010 at 22:00

yeah all pcie are backwards compatible, sure sounds like agp

Cookeh · 11 May 2010 at 09:29

lanzarobbie said:
yeah all pcie are backwards compatible, sure sounds like agp

+1 im afraid

Marine-RX179 · 11 May 2010 at 09:44

Well, here's the spec for the board:
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/content.php?S_ID=450

The 7600GS is probably a AGP card.

PCI-E is indeed backwards compatible, just like how USB2.0 would run USB1.0/1.1 devices.

helpimcrap · 12 May 2010 at 19:33

bought an ATI 1024mb 4350 just so it shows a pic. got a 600w power source too and a 500gb samsung spinpoint 16mb cache HDD.

so total spec is as follows:
one busted AGP 7600 and one thermaltake outdated PSU = £20

ATX Armor case
600w PSU
PCIE 4350 1gb
4gb kingston DDR3 ram
AMD athlon II quad core 630
500GB samsung spinpoint HDD

total cost: about £320 + £20 on duff bits

need to get:
DVD drive (not gonna bother with blue ray)
Kayboard/Mouse
24" monitor

the monitor i'm kinda clueless on. i think i can get it all done for £500 all in and thatmight include a copy of windows 7 yet.