New sub advice

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im planning on replacing my MJ Acoustics Reference 1 mk1 sub that has provided decent service for about 18 years. I’m not really wanting to spend over £400 but could go a bit higher if needed. I only use subs for home cinema in a room about 5.5m x 5m. Sub will be placed in a corner towards front of room, but behind a sofa, & therefore needs to be downward firing. I really am clueless when it comes to subs so any advice will be appreciated. I had been looking at BK subs. Initially the sub will be used with a MJ Acoustic reference 100 but also plan to eventually replace this with matching sub.
 
Cheers for your replies, i was assuming that the advance in tech since I bought the MJ would be significant enough to be an upgrade. If it isn’t I’d stick with MJ. However I can up the budget to around £700 if there was a sub that would upgrade the sub.
 
Thanks for the detailed reply. From your reply, I’m now starting to seriously consider leaving my money in my account & continuing with the MJ until it gives up the ghost. I would assume that if keeping the MJ Ref 1, the second sub MJ reference 100 isn’t worth replacing?? With regards to moving subs from corners, the ref 1 would be extremely difficult to move unless you can get a rca to rca connector in order to lengthen my cabling. If you can get such a connector I could probably move sub about 50cmaway from corner. The second sub I could probably also move about 50cm away so will try this in next week or so.
 
Extension cables is a simple thing.

If yours is the same as the Ref 100 MKII then it has the same size driver and 150W amp as your Ref One, but this time in a much smaller sealed cabinet.

Changing this for a Monolith+ would make a pretty substantial difference to the level and depth of bass in the room.

I keep coming back to the same question though, because I don't think you've answered it yet: What's missing from the soul of the MJ subs? What is it you're looking for that the MJs don't do for movies for you?

If the answer is 'nothing, I just fancied a change and can afford to spend the money' well then that's fine. But if you're looking for something extra from the sound of your movies, then now is the time to say.

Personally, I would look at getting your current Reference One working better in the room, then decide on any next step from there.

Other than thinking 18 years advancement would mean improved bass response etc. the only thing I’d say is that sometimes (for want of a better word) on explosions it can sound bloated. As well it doesn’t appear to always sync with the speakers, again mainly on explosions during movies. I genuinely didn’t realise subwoofers were such a mind field. I have a pretty good understanding of all other components to the home cinema, but I am clueless with subs, I’ve tried reading up on them but after a couple of paragraphs I’m lost! I’ll try moving the subs from the corners, only problem is the reference 1 to move from corner would end up near a small bookcase.
 
The bloatedness or boom is most likely down to a combination of sub position and seating position. You see, more than any other speaker type, a subwoofer puts energy in to a room that is often very peaky. By that, what I mean is that if you were able to play a single tone and then walk around the room, you would notice that the volume appears to rise and fall in relation to where you are standing. Changing the frequency results in a different distribution of peaks (boominess) and nulls (places where the volume is greatly diminished or even where the bass note sounds almost silent). What you are hearing is the standing waves in the room.

Standing waves are always worst at any even fraction of a room dimension. Your room is 5.5m x 5m x the ceiling height. We'll deal with just length first. The worst places to sit in your room will be half way along its length, and 1/4 way, or with the sofa up against the back wall. The same goes for the width, so don't sit at 1/2 the width, or 1/4, or up against the side walls. More even bass will be heard when you're sitting at 1/3rd or 2/3rds the room length, if that isn't practical then try 1/5th, 2/5ths, 3/5ths, 4/5ths. The same principles apply to width and height.

By this point you're probably building a mental picture of the bad places to sit in a room, and you may have already worked out that the room corners are the worst of all. It follows then that the bad places for you to sit as a listener are also the bad places to put a subwoofer. The room corners produce the most peaky in-room bass response of all. Moving the sub away from the room corner to a 1/3rd or 1/5th wall length position will smooth out some of the peaks and troughs in the bass response. Do that, and tweak the seating positions too, and you may find that your sub sounds a whole lot better.

Now, the timing.

Once you have a smoother bass response, then it's time to turn your attention to the Delay (A.K.A. Phase) feature. You may have used the AV receiver's auto set-up wizard. They're clever, but not infallible. Play some music with a well defined bass beat. Start with the phase at 0 degrees. Adjust the phase control and listen for when the bass is the strongest. This is when the sub is in-phase with the main speakers. Depending on your receiver or pre-amp, you may be able to make this adjustment from the amp rather than the back control on the sub.


In making these small adjustments to sub position, seating and then re-adjusting phase to suit the new sub position, you'll do more to tighten up the sub's integration with the main speakers and smooth its in-room response than can be achieved by simply swapping the sub for something more modern and throwing a lot of tech at the problem. If we were going the whole hog, then the next stage would be bass traps which are physical room treatments to help deal with the standing wave energy and further smooth out the in-room response. However, unless you have a dedicated room and an extra chunk of cash plus a very understanding significant other then doing a full room treatment isn't a step that most people are willing to undertake just on the say so of someone on the 'net. That leaves the neater but less effective option of electronic toys.

@hornetstinger mentioned subsonic filters. They can be added in-line on the signal feed from the AV receiver to the sub. I'll let him explain more about what they do and the benefits and costs.

The other thing to have a look at is a product such as Anti-mode. This is a device that measures what the sub is doing in the room and applies some very accurate room correction processing. Most AV processors with room correction software built-in can do a reasonable job with the main speakers, but they either don't work on the sub channel or are very limited in what they do. Anti-mode is a dedicated to the sub channel.

There are limits to what any electronic correction system can do though. They can tame the excessive peaks reasonably effectively, but where they're limited is in dealing with the troughs where the room is sucking out the bass at specific frequencies for certain listening positions. Increasing the drive at those frequencies will never overcome what the room and physics does to sound waves. One solution is to use multiple subs.

Two-, three- or four subs in a room can help fill the troughs if the person setting them up knows what they're doing.

Again, thank you for the brilliant explanation. I’ve tried to read about phase before but given up after a few paragraphs, but your explanation was to the point. I’ve heard of anti modes before & bk seem to stock one at £235 & could be the way to go. However, does this just calibrate then removed from the system or does it remain part of the system? Also, I assume that I’d have to buy two, one for the reference 1& one for the reference 100?
 
You keep it in the system.
Also not a good idea to have two different subs you want identical models

Thanks for the reply. The two subs are the ones I already own but are both MJ Acoustics, but couldn’t fit another reference 1 in the position of the second sub so had to buy a smaller model. Do I need to buy two anti modes? One for each sub or can I use a splitter out of one anti mode into each sub?
 
I’ve managed to adjust phase & eventhough it’s probablynot spot on, it’s synced a lot better with the other speakers & the subs already sound better. My years of drumming helped withe phase setting listening & feeling for the beat with the subs. I’ve sourced an antimode where the seller offers a return if I don’t feel there’s a difference, so will order this. If that doesn’t work,I’ll see if I can get a similar agreement on an equaliser.
 
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