New to servers, made a mistake need advice

paradisiac · 7 Jan 2014 at 11:51

ok, so im running server 2008 RC 2 mainly as my plex server, but i thought yesterday i could setup owncloud on there too. all went well and was working great, i then added some apps to owncloud and it stopped working. cannot get it to work again so a bit annoyed but as my knowledge is poor i wont try and fix it.
my thoughts are -
1. reinstall server 2008 rc 2 and start again
or
2. setup a virtual machine and run owncloud off of that

there are 2 issues i have thought of so far, although im sure there are more i have missed. 1st if i use a virtual machine as a web/mysql/php server will i need to log into the main os to run them, if so this isnt ideal. and 2nd i have no knowledge on virtual machines so dont know how i would go about setting one up or what i would need

EDIT : my understanding of a virtual machine is i can make a snapshot before i do any changes, and if it all goes wrong just reload from that and it will be working again. is this correct?

Deleted member 77746 · 7 Jan 2014 at 12:13

Are these production systems or just test ones?

paradisiac · 7 Jan 2014 at 12:17

just for my own personal use. i had a spare pc laying around and thought as i havent really done much server side for 10 years i would play and see what i might be able to use the server for. would be great to have a central machine i could store all my media, photos, documents etc on and also maybe have a bit (like owncloud) my parents could upload stuff too

Deleted member 77746 · 7 Jan 2014 at 12:27

When you installed the apps what was the error that you get now? Can you take a screenshot of what happens when you access owncloud?

paradisiac · 7 Jan 2014 at 12:27

fixed the issue with owncloud, reinstalled php and now works, but not sure which setting messed it up just got a 500 error message. so would like some way of running something so i can go back in time if i mess something up.

Deleted member 77746 · 7 Jan 2014 at 12:31

paradisiac said:
fixed the issue with owncloud, reinstalled php and now works, but not sure which setting messed it up just got a 500 error message. so would like some way of running something so i can go back in time if i mess something up.

When you run your own the only way is to start to document it otherwise when you come to something like this it can be a nightmare to reverse.

I would also do SQL backups and file backups.

To be fair I would run it off a virtual machine and point some storage to physical. Then that way what you can do is snapshots as long as you have enough space.

paradisiac · 7 Jan 2014 at 12:35

mrbell1984 said:
When you run your own the only way is to start to document it otherwise when you come to something like this it can be a nightmare to reverse.

I would also do SQL backups and file backups.

To be fair I would run it off a virtual machine and point some storage to physical. Then that way what you can do is snapshots as long as you have enough space.

i dont really know how to do sql backups or restore them. i think i need to do a lot of reading and playing.
all i did to break it was to add some of the owncloud apps (which stupidly did in 1 go rather than 1 at a time so dont know which caused the fault) and from then on i just got an error screen when logging in or trying to reinstall owncloud, but uninstalling mysql and php and starting again fixed it for reinstallation, but this isnt ideal if i make changes and have to start again every time i start breaking things.

how do virtual machines work? do i just install something like vmware, install an os and set it up as i have now?

Deleted member 77746 · 7 Jan 2014 at 13:13

paradisiac said:
i dont really know how to do sql backups or restore them. i think i need to do a lot of reading and playing.
all i did to break it was to add some of the owncloud apps (which stupidly did in 1 go rather than 1 at a time so dont know which caused the fault) and from then on i just got an error screen when logging in or trying to reinstall owncloud, but uninstalling mysql and php and starting again fixed it for reinstallation, but this isnt ideal if i make changes and have to start again every time i start breaking things.

how do virtual machines work? do i just install something like vmware, install an os and set it up as i have now?

To be honest if you need to ask the question I'm unsure if you should be running a live environment for owncloud. In my eyes it's best just to use storage what is available today like Sky Drive or Google Drive or Amazon Storage.

Running your own systems can be a big job and you are running the chance of loosing a lot of data.

paradisiac · 7 Jan 2014 at 13:18

mrbell1984 said:
To be honest if you need to ask the question I'm unsure if you should be running a live environment for owncloud. In my eyes it's best just to use storage what is available today like Sky Drive or Google Drive or Amazon Storage.

Running your own systems can be a big job and you are running the chance of loosing a lot of data.

the 'DATA' folder is backed up so that is not an issue, and the problem with skydrive and that is the limit on storage size for free. i dont expect this to be anything overly complicated just basically a fileserver i guess but with a web based frontend.

Deleted member 77746 · 7 Jan 2014 at 14:24

paradisiac said:
the 'DATA' folder is backed up so that is not an issue, and the problem with skydrive and that is the limit on storage size for free. i dont expect this to be anything overly complicated just basically a fileserver i guess but with a web based frontend.

It's when things go wrong with the hardware or web based front end as you already have witnessed.

SQL = PHPMYADMIN
VMWARE = VMware Workstation (PC) / VMware Fusion (MAC)
VirtualBox = https://www.virtualbox.org/ (PC / MAC)

paradisiac · 7 Jan 2014 at 14:36

mrbell1984 said:
It's when things go wrong.

yeh, but reinstalling it doesnt seem to hard/long to do, and as there will only be 3-4 users setting them up and putting the files back will be very easy too.

with VMWare that is running an OS inside an OS and enclosed in a single file? so if i make regular backups of that file i can always restore to an earlier version?

Deleted member 77746 · 7 Jan 2014 at 14:54

paradisiac said:
yeh, but reinstalling it doesnt seem to hard/long to do, and as there will only be 3-4 users setting them up and putting the files back will be very easy too.

with VMWare that is running an OS inside an OS and enclosed in a single file? so if i make regular backups of that file i can always restore to an earlier version?

If it's for this many users there's no point hosting it yourself.

Yep this is what VMware is for but again lot to learn.

paradisiac · 7 Jan 2014 at 14:58

mrbell1984 said:
If it's for this many users there's no point hosting it yourself.

Yep this is what VMware is for but again lot to learn.

why would it not be worth hosting myself?

Deleted member 77746 · 7 Jan 2014 at 15:05

paradisiac said:
why would it not be worth hosting myself?

I quote = "New to servers, made a mistake need advice"

File Storage on it's own isn't for the person with little knowledge. You really need to know what to do. Have you got any hardware backups in case the hardware fails?

mattyy · 7 Jan 2014 at 15:32

mrbell1984 said:
I quote = "New to servers, made a mistake need advice"

File Storage on it's own isn't for the person with little knowledge. You really need to know what to do. Have you got any hardware backups in case the hardware fails?

Whilst I agree a little with this the guy is doing it for his own personal use and as far as I can tell he is backing up whatever data is being hosted.

Why would he need backup of hardware for a personal solution when equipment failure isnt too much of an issue (which I'm assuming it isnt as he is experimenting with this and not using a more reliable solution in the first place).

I don't think he is asking why he should'nt do it but rather help for the learning curve and how to minimise workload when he does mess something up.
We all have to start somewhere and what mrbell is insinuating is that something like this should be learnt when you're hosting a service to many more users than just yourself.

Unfortuntely I cannot help much more than to tell you that it is worthwhile looking into VMware and virtual machines.

paradisiac · 7 Jan 2014 at 15:43

mrbell1984 said:
I quote = "New to servers, made a mistake need advice"

File Storage on it's own isn't for the person with little knowledge. You really need to know what to do. Have you got any hardware backups in case the hardware fails?

if it fails then yeh i have loads of spare machines laying around i can install the OS to and start again. like i said reinstalling and setting up again didnt take too long and wasnt too painful so if i couldnt get a vmware solution or any way around it then i wouldnt be the end of the world was just hoping there would be an easy answer whilst playing.

Deleted member 77746 · 7 Jan 2014 at 18:29

mattyy said:
Whilst I agree a little with this the guy is doing it for his own personal use and as far as I can tell he is backing up whatever data is being hosted.

Why would he need backup of hardware for a personal solution when equipment failure isnt too much of an issue (which I'm assuming it isnt as he is experimenting with this and not using a more reliable solution in the first place).

I don't think he is asking why he should'nt do it but rather help for the learning curve and how to minimise workload when he does mess something up.
We all have to start somewhere and what mrbell is insinuating is that something like this should be learnt when you're hosting a service to many more users than just yourself.

Unfortuntely I cannot help much more than to tell you that it is worthwhile looking into VMware and virtual machines.

That isn't what I'm saying.