Nibiru..2012 the end?

[Radiation]

snip

Considering much of it is open to interpretation and debate there are many theories and it would be similar to arguing about which religion is more correct i suspect, we just don't know for sure so you have some info and i have other info obviously.

It's pretty similar with the pyramids, you're obviously agreeing with me in a way since you put forward the idea that they could have been built by time travellers, we just don't know and even though most ideas are unlikely, some can be more reasonable and a little less unlikely than others.

 

[rsatd]

Going with the Egyptians thing, one documentary I seen on this seemed to suggest that people building those pyramids were not slaves, as they were fed relatively expensive food, not something slaves would.

 

[Tefal]

Going with the Egyptians thing, one documentary I seen on this seemed to suggest that people building those pyramids were not slaves, as they were fed relatively expensive food, not something slaves would.

probbably a combination, trained stonemasons, slightly more trained supervisors and workers, and then slaves for the very basic menial work/site maintained

Ie slaves may have dragged the block to the site but better trained/rewarded people up the thing to prevent risks of damaging it.

 

[rsatd]

Probably likely, that documentary seemed to limit itself with just the digs around the pyramids where they think the camps were for the workers and what not.

 

[Angilion]

Considering much of it is open to interpretation and debate there are many theories and it would be similar to arguing about which religion is more correct i suspect, we just don't know for sure so you have some info and i have other info obviously.

I have some info that I understand. You have a number that you have no support for.

You talk about interpretation - I have asked you to give any indication whatsoever why you interpret a Mayan long count cycle to be 26,000 years long and you haven't done so. I think it's because you don't know.

It's pretty similar with the pyramids, you're obviously agreeing with me in a way since you put forward the idea that they could have been built by time travellers, we just don't know and even though most ideas are unlikely, some can be more reasonable and a little less unlikely than others.

The Egyptian pyramids could have been built by the flying spaghetti monster, but I don't count that as a reasonable explanation either. I'm not agreeing with you. I'm saying that the argument you used is a classic fallacy. You may as well have a recording of someone knocking over a vase and yet believe that Tinkerbell the fairy pushed it over. Which is also possible. There are records of the cost and people involved in building the great pyramids of Egypt. It is possible for enough determined people to build one by hand and the workers' camps were the size of towns. There is no reason at all to think they couldn't have been built without divine/alien intervention. That's just an appeal to ignorance - "I don't know how it was done, therefore a deity/alien technology/magic did it." Temporary ramps could provide a way up the pyramid at a much lesser gradient and many men pulling on ropes can move tonnes of stone. It's surprising what 200 people can pull. Or even 20 people.

When answering to skepticism about how such heavy stones could have been moved without machinery, Redford [Donald Redford, professor of Classics and ancient Mediterranean studies at Penn State] says, "I usually show the skeptic a picture of 20 of my workers at an archaeological dig site pulling up a two-and-a-half ton granite block." He added, "I know it's possible because I was on the ropes too."

There's also another explanation, one I hadn't read before now and haven't checked - concrete. It sounds plausible.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061209122918.htm

I can explain part of one of the "unexplained" things referred to in that article, namely how they cut granite (which you can't cut with copper tools). Cutting tools made of another rock have been found in Egyptian quarries. Dolorite, diorite...something like that.

 

[Angilion]

Going with the Egyptians thing, one documentary I seen on this seemed to suggest that people building those pyramids were not slaves, as they were fed relatively expensive food, not something slaves would.

Slavery was quite complicated in Egypt, not a straightforward oppression. Some slaves ate expensive food, wore expensive clothes, lived in expensive accomodation and generally had a very high standard of living in a physical sense. Partly because skilled slaves (scribes, masons, etc) were very hard to replace and partly because it was a powerful display of wealth and status, a very clear message of "I am so rich that even my slaves live like wealthy people".

Slave labourers wouldn't live like wealthy people, though they might well have a better physical standard of living than many free people. Not out of any ethical consideration, but simply out of efficiency - a well-fed, well-rested labourer can work harder.

But it does seem likely that most, maybe all, of the pyramid builders were free. It would have been a highly regarded job, with a religious angle to it, and probably cheaper than tens of thousands of slaves. Since it was a government project, tax breaks could be used. I've read that the Egyptian soldiers were sometimes assigned to pyramid-building, which sounds plausible. Other cultures assigned soldiers to construction work - it keeps them occupied and people used to acting together in a disciplined manner were just the thing for construction work. Hadrian's Wall, for example, was built by Roman soldiers.

 

[Radiation]

snip

How is it i have no support for it when the info comes from many sources? its a cycle they came up with, i don't see what your arguing against, you're quite capable of searching google for "26000 mayan" if you're that bothered, as to the pyramid thing, im not sure what your arguing for as i made it clear im open to all possibilities which you seem to agree exist, i don't discount it could be done by humans, there are many each more or less likely than another.

 

[Tefal]

I can explain part of one of the "unexplained" things referred to in that article, namely how they cut granite (which you can't cut with copper tools). Cutting tools made of another rock have been found in Egyptian quarries. Dolorite, diorite...something like that.

You can roughly crack rock into blocks without trying to cut it, you just need to make small holes/cracks and then fill them with something that expands.

There's numerous clays that do the job (and are still sued for none explosive demolition of concrete today), and also dry wooden wedges which where later wetted so they expand.

Rock sucks under tension so it doesn't take a lot to crack it.

 

[Angilion]

How is it i have no support for it when the info comes from many sources? its a cycle they came up with, i don't see what your arguing against, you're quite capable of searching google for "26000 mayan" if you're that bothered, as to the pyramid thing, im not sure what your arguing for as i made it clear im open to all possibilities which you seem to agree exist, i don't discount it could be done by humans, there are many each more or less likely than another.

I've asked you, four times now, to give any reason why you think the Mayan long count cycle is 26,000 years. You haven't answered, let alone provided any support for your answer.

I'm also asking you to explain what the issue is with a 5026 year cycle (3114 BC to 2012) if the cycle is 26,000 years.

Obviously, one contradicts the other. You can't have both.

 

[Tefal]

you're quite capable of searching google for "26000 mayan" if you're that bothered,

All this comes up with is 2012 sites with it written but no reference.

No where on wiki/any encyclopaedia says anything about 26000 years :/

 

[KaneStatton]

**** Just realised i'll still be at Uni when we die,
What about my degree ?

 

[Angilion]

You can roughly crack rock into blocks without trying to cut it, you just need to make small holes/cracks and then fill them with something that expands.

There's numerous clays that do the job (and are still sued for none explosive demolition of concrete today), and also dry wooden wedges which where later wetted so they expand.

Rock sucks under tension so it doesn't take a lot to crack it.

Maybe cracking to get close to requirements and then shaping to get a less rough finished piece? It would take time, but they had time.

 

[Angilion]

**** Just realised i'll still be at Uni when we die,
What about my degree ?

Ask your university if a partial degree can be used as a basis for continued study in the next life.

Obvious, really.

 

[rsatd]

**** Just realised i'll still be at Uni when we die,
What about my degree ?

I am afraid only those with a degree will get a chance to battle aliens as obviously it makes them far far more superior candidates to die in combat as painlessly as possible, while the rest of you sub humans will have to suffer the slow death of natural disasters, cataclysms and a mop up operation to get rid of survivors.

All hail our reptilian overlords!

 

[Tefal]

Maybe cracking to get close to requirements and then shaping to get a less rough finished piece? It would take time, but they had time.

yeah thats what i was suggesting.

But the cracks can be amazingly straight and accurate. even when using expanding wooden rods and crude holes slowly ground out.

 

[Angilion]

All this comes up with is 2012 sites with it written but no reference.

No where on wiki/any encyclopaedia says anything about 26000 years :/

I can make one up:

One cycle is 5026 years.

Five cycles is...err...special. Somehow. Fill in here with some pseudo-mystical babble.

25130 is 26000. Sort of. It's not like accuracy matters with this sort of thing. Which is particularly ironic considering that the Mayans considered accuracy in dating to be of great importance.

 

[Tefal]

All hail our reptilian overlords!

what exactly do our overlords get out this deal?

I mean it;s not like we produce much of anything or is just a fun pastime?

 

[rsatd]

what exactly do our overlords get out this deal?

I mean it;s not like we produce much of anything or is just a fun pastime?

I'donno, I am just attempting to kiss some ass so I would be granted quick and painless death when their storm troopers arrive

 

[Radiation]

I've asked you, four times now, to give any reason why you think the Mayan long count cycle is 26,000 years. You haven't answered, let alone provided any support for your answer.

I'm also asking you to explain what the issue is with a 5026 year cycle (3114 BC to 2012) if the cycle is 26,000 years.

Obviously, one contradicts the other. You can't have both.

Look if you want to get like that i could ask you to back up you're stuff with a reputable paper or multiple sources, but i don't see the point because this is an internet forum thread on a subject of already questionable material, what good would arguing with you over such mixed information be, the mayans came up with various cycles or the people of today have, im not making claims but it seems you are.

Yes things contradict in life, since when is that news, people also have opinions, or interpret info in different ways, believe things differently, there are few facts in a subject like this.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Look if you want to get like that i could ask you to back up you're stuff with a reputable paper or multiple sources, but i don't see the point because this is an internet forum thread on a subject of already questionable material, what good would arguing with you over such mixed information be, the mayans came up with various cycles or the people of today have, im not making claims but it seems you are.

Yes things contradict in life, since when is that news, people also have opinions, or interpret info in different ways, believe things differently, there are few facts in a subject like this.

Could you give any links as to why you (or someone else) believes it to be a 26,000 year cycle? I've just quickly Googled and I see a few people flat out stating that 26,000 years is one cycle but very little in the way of calculations to back it up, Angilion has shown why 5026 years makes sense, could you do the same?

Angilion, your guess of 5 cycles as the roughest of rough approximations seems to tally with what this fellow says, I'm not at all sure if he has worked out that 5125*5 doesn't equal 26,000 or that 5026*5 doesn't equal 26,000 either though.