NIP - Driving without due care and attention

[Adam]

This is an interesting situation, my wife received notification that there is an intention to prosecute her for driving without due care and attention. We think we have an idea what this could relate to but so far have only returned the form to identify the driver (she is not the registered owner).

On a journey to the shops my wife noticed a man furiously waving at her in a way that suggested she should slow down. The road was clear, she doesn't believe she was speeding (no speed output on the dashcam to back this up) but the road in question has an almost blind bend. She mentioned it to me once she got home and this date corresponds with the date on the NIP. I've checked the dashcam footage on this date (I'll come on to this in a minute) and this is the only thing it could relate to.

On the dashcam footage my wife comes around the corner and you can clearly see the man standing by the side of the road with his young child and a scooter gesturing at my wife. It looks like they are attempting to cross the road just past the corner which isn't the safest of places but they hadn't stepped out in to the road. There's no crossing or traffic lights, just a standard residential 30mph road. However, there is another car on the other side of the road approaching and another car behind them so even if my wife hadn't been there then he couldn't have crossed the road anyway.

What I suspect has happened is this guy is an off duty policeman and has reported her on the basis that he was already in the road and had to jump out the way with his child to avoid her. I find it incredible that it's gone this far already on what seems like one person's account against another.

I'm very interested to see what comes back next. I'm guessing there will be some form of offer for her to take the fine and points without taking it any further. I think the evidence we have is overhwhelmingly in her favour. Does anyone know at which point we can present the dash cam evidence or is the only opportunity to take it to court?

 

[Adam]

is this normal for them to send a letter like this without explaining why ?

does seem rather odd, its like me send you a letter and saying "im going to take you to court"

I’m not sure, presumably they would have reviewed the statement and decided there was something in it hence sending the request to identity who was driving. I’d be very surprised if we go through that process and then not hear anything again. I do agree with you though, hence why I think it’s an off duty policeman as if a member of the public were to make a report I can’t see it would be followed up on given the police’s resources unless there were multiple witnesses or some form of evidence? It even crossed my mind if the letter was genuine but everything seemed to match up when I googled it and it was sent to me as I’m the registered owner.

 

[Adam]

Just to confirm some points made in the thread so far.

• All we have received so far is a letter (an application for the identity of the driver) asking us to confirm who was driving the car (we returned this immediately as I can't imagine there is anything to gain by not doing so)
• The letter is titled "intention to prosecute) and the offence is "drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road / in a public place without due care and attention"
• The location, time etc all correspond with the dash cam footage
• My wife was not on the phone or distracted (she is ultra over the top safe which is why it's quite amusing this has happened. I've been sending her "how to prepare for prison" links/videos )
• She was in our 2nd car (Focus 1.0 ecoboost) so hardly anything that would attract attention
• The NIP is dated 3 days after the offence took place
• I've purposefully not posted the footage as I'm not sure if I can given it may be used as evidence

While a driving awareness course wouldn't be the end of the world (still have to pay £100 for the privilege) it seems slightly unfair based on the footage. I think she would probably take that rather than fight it in court which on one hand I can understand but the other I think we have great evidence.

The only other scenario I can think of is that perhaps one of the 2 cars going the other way have seen this guy waving his arms with his child, thought they were in distress and stopped to speak to them. Perhaps they had a dash cam themselves. I know things can look different from another perspective so perhaps it did look differently to the oncoming traffic? I've just got a hunch the guy is a policeman though.

Either way we'll see if we hear anything or get any more details of the allegation. Thanks for the help so far!

 

[Adam]

Does your dash cam show the speed that your wife was travelling?

Unfortunately not, it doesn't have GPS but the quality is excellent.

 

[Adam]

Nope it's not on a sideroad. The guy is standing about 25-50m past the turning and next to the entrance to a one way exit leading out of a park.

I've watched it numerous times and I can't make my mind up on the speed. Even if she was speeding, wouldn't that be a different offence (i.e. breaking the speed limit vs driving without due care and attention)? My research leads me to believe that careless driving covers a huge range of things such as being on the phone or being distracted, hitting someone/another car by making an error, running a read light, poor choices when overtaking etc. Speed seems to be an aggrevating factor for sentancing rather than the actual offence itself.

I've sent @Burnsy2023 the clip for his thoughts.

 

[Adam]

if someones starting to cross, and a car at excess speed is suddenly bearing down on them .... did she brake ? that would be the natural instinct No.

She did brake once he started gesturing while he was standing on the pavement. I’ve looked closely and not once did he step in the the road.

Like I said previously, even if her car was invisible and he wanted to cross within that period of time there are 2 cars coming the other way so it wouldn’t have been possible for him to have crossed the road without those cars stopping too.

 

[Adam]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and comments on the situation, especially to @Burnsy2023 for his detailed analysis via email (excellent stuff). I think his analysis was spot on and it does appear she was driving a bit faster than she should have been.

I'm going to see what happens and if we get any further correspondence through the post. I'll update once I have more information for you. I'll aim to post the video once this has been resolved.

 

[Adam]

Update:

My wife received an offer for 3 points and a £100 fine for the careless driving offence. She called the number on the NIP and was told some very basic details although it didn't explain in full the reason why she was being prosecuted for the offence (i.e. there was no mention of the person stepping in to the road, only driving at excessive speed and it was mentioned in the statement that my wife made a gesture too). She didn't mention the gesture to me as she didn't think it was a big deal at the time, but it turned out to play an important part. Another option was for an officer to call her to talk through the allegation in more detail so she went for that option. My wife at this point had decided that having looked at the footage again that she'd take it on the chin and take the points and the fine.

We received a knock at the door over the weekend. It was the police, more specifically it was the individual in the dashcam footage. Obviously that explains that he was an off duty policeman at the time. We invited him in and he asked my wife if she knew why he was there.

Credit to my wife she said she was aware, she had reviewed the dashcam and concedes she was driving slightly faster than she should have been. Regarding the gesture, she was frustrated by him waving at her and shouldn't have made the gesture and was therefore sorry for doing so as it was unacceptable behavior. We had a bit of a laugh about it and how it was out of character for my wife.

The policeman explained she was actually lucky not to get charged with 2 offences: 1) driving without due care and attention as she took her hand off the wheel to make the gesture and 2) a public order offence for the gesture itself. The policeman said that even if the gesture hadn't been made, he thought she was driving too fast for the conditions and would have reported her anyway. He mentioned that he sees situations like this escalate out of control with road rage etc so feels this kind of education is important. Can't argue with that.

The policeman was very reasonable and said that because she admitted she was in the wrong and showed remorse he would drop the charge against her and to consider it a telling off and a warning. If she had played dumb or tried to justified her actions etc then he would not have dropped the charge.

I thought that was an incredibly effective way to deal with the situation. My wife said that even though she was relieved not to receive the points, it was more of a lesson/telling off as it was more personal. It also taught our son who was in the room at the time that honesty is the best policy and the best way to deal with situations like that. Sometimes these lessons are best coming from someone else so they actually take some notice.

A good outcome to a situation that probably should have been avoided. I'll have this in the back of my mind next time too

 

[Adam]

I'm inclined to disagree, I thought it was a constructive way to deal with the offence. The officer was in our house for 7 minutes and the result was more worthwhile than her receiving points on her license and begrudgingly paying a fine.

She was in the wrong on both counts, both on her speed (@Burnsy2023 also said he thought she was driving faster than she should have been) and even though we've all done it many times, making a gesture probably isn't to be encouraged.

I can see where this thread may be headed so may I request it's closed now I've provided an update please?

 

[Adam]

I think it probably depends how excessive her speed was, there's no real reason it shouldn't be displayed on the dash cam though, especially if you're keeping the footage for any length of time.

I don't see how it could ever be proven by a bystander without your own footage being reviewed though.

This is a fair point, the speed would have been a useful addition. It's one of these (https://www.yitechnology.com/smart-dash-camera-c10/) which I bought a couple of years ago. The picture quality is fantastic but it is missing some of the advance features that would have been useful in this situation.