Northern lights & low light challenge

[Scuzi]

I’ll be taking the family to Finnish Lapland in a few weeks time. We’ll be doing the whole Santa thing for a day with the kids but the rest of the time will be spent doing the various winter activities, e.g. playing in the snow, sledding, snowmobiling, maybe a ski lesson. But my side objective in selling this to the wife was to get an opportunity to see the northern lights. I’m well aware we’ll be at the mercy of nature, but should the opportunity present itself, I’d like to capture some nice shots of the family with the lights in the background. The key objective is capturing the lights but also all of the family moments in a low-light and very cold environment.

Here’s the dilemma. My current photography equipment consists of an iPhone SE 2020 and a Canon EOS30 film camera with a nifty fifty and Chinese Speedlight ripoff flashgun. I’m also putting in place a plan to see if I can retire by 45 so I’m consciously trying to spend as little money as I possibly can, wherever possible. My go-to solution would have been too buy a full frame Canon SLR and some wide lenses, but I just don‘t have the thousands to drop on this. I want to strike the best balance of photographic success for the least amount possible. My iPhone just won’t cut it. The wife suggested getting a newer phone because loads of people seem to be having success with the newer models, but I would rather wait until my phone dies before replacing it, and it seems silly to spend hundreds extra on a phone for one purpose.

I was thinking a better solution would be to buy some decent second hand camera equipment and sell it on afterwards for (hopefully) a minimal loss. Some time ago, I dabbled for the best part of a decade with Canon SLR digital and film equipment (peak bragging rights were a 5D, 1V, and some expensive lenses), so I feel fairly comfortable working my way around that system.

What would you do to get the best photographic results for the minimum expenditure. The most I’d be willing to outlay with the hope of selling on to make minimal loss would be about £200-300. The nifty fifty helps if I were to go with a Canon body, but I’d need a wider angle lens, possibly one of the Chinese 35mm f2 options, so SLR bodies are probably a stretch, especially full frame.

What would you recommend?

P.S. the price of photography gear compared to mid-2000s is ridiculous.

 

[Captain]

Have you looked into renting a camera and lens?

Have a look on lensesforhire and see what sort of prices you can rent for, saves the hassle of having to sell them on.

Something like a Canon 5Dmkiv would be around £190 for 7 days and a 24mm 1.4 would be £87 for 7 days.

Both would work great together.

 

[Scuzi]

I hadn’t looked into that, thanks for the suggestion. It seems like the best way to get the latest kit, but it would be ~£300 in dead money. I wonder if I could buy good enough second hand kit for similar or less, and flog it after the trip to recoup most of the outlay. I’m content with adequate performance for a lower price over outstanding performance for a higher price.

 

[Donnie Fisher]

mpb have some 5D’s sub £200 … something you are used to, full frame, and as you say with a cheap Chinese lens for the wider angle would probably see you right.

 

[Quartz]

But my side objective in selling this to the wife was to get an opportunity to see the northern lights.

Don't bother trying to photograph them. Just stand and stare and enjoy them.

 

[robj20]

Don't bother trying to photograph them. Just stand and stare and enjoy them.

Good advice. The amount of times I tried to photograph fireworks. Really you miss actually watching the show.

 

[Columbo]

Just a thought but rather than drop wedge of cash you may not use again why not look to upgrade your phone to one with a much better camera.

My pixel has a dedicated astro mode and the results are pretty amazing tbh as long as you dont intend to do massive prints and are viewing them on normal size displays its pretty amazing what kind of results you can get from a handset these days. I barely take my Sony camera out with me these days.

Pretty sure a used iPhone 12 (as an example) would be able to do something similar with the added benefit of getting something you'll use longer term and you can get some cash back by selling or exchanging your SE.

 

[Donnie Fisher]

There are also some night time photo apps which can do more than the normal camera app on a phone can for longer exposures.

 

[Scuzi]

Interesting perspectives, thank you!
I have a mental block about spending so much on a phone which is probably somewhat irrational. You are right that it will always be there for use, giving better overall value for money. I do worry that even the best camera phones will struggle, but after checking a Facebook group of people out there at the moment, some of the shots taken on iPhone 13/14s are fantastic for what they are.

The thought crossed my mind to hire a local professional photographer to snap away whilst we soak up the experience, but the presence of the aurora is not guaranteed. Maybe worth the punt, and worst case we still get some nice family pics in the tundra?

 

[Scuzi]

In an unexpected turn, having been offered a pretty good deal, I have acquired a Fujifilm X-T200 with the 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 II. Seems like a great little travel camera with decent high ISO performance.

One question though. I remember from my Canon days that one of the selling points of the weather sealed cameras and lenses was that they performed well in extreme cold. Is this consumer grade Fuji likely to suffer any problems with temperatures below zero down to about -15/-20?

Also, I forgot how much difference a wide aperture can make. Even F/3.5 indoors is requiring some very high ISO and low shutter speeds. The OIS is impressive though, giving fairly sharp results handheld at even 1/2s. I might rent the 23mm f/1.4 or 2.0 given that the destination is going to get about 7-8 hours only of daylight.

 

[Tachyon]

In an unexpected turn, having been offered a pretty good deal, I have acquired a Fujifilm X-T200 with the 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 II. Seems like a great little travel camera with decent high ISO performance.

One question though. I remember from my Canon days that one of the selling points of the weather sealed cameras and lenses was that they performed well in extreme cold. Is this consumer grade Fuji likely to suffer any problems with temperatures below zero down to about -15/-20?

Also, I forgot how much difference a wide aperture can make. Even F/3.5 indoors is requiring some very high ISO and low shutter speeds. The OIS is impressive though, giving fairly sharp results handheld at even 1/2s. I might rent the 23mm f/1.4 or 2.0 given that the destination is going to get about 7-8 hours only of daylight.

Can't comment on how the camera will perform at those temps but get a couple of extra batteries as the cold will do a great job of affecting their performance. Keep them well wrapped up and warm, just like yourself and enjoy the trip.

 

[FloppyPoppy]

Just a thought but rather than drop wedge of cash you may not use again why not look to upgrade your phone to one with a much better camera.

My pixel has a dedicated astro mode and the results are pretty amazing tbh as long as you dont intend to do massive prints and are viewing them on normal size displays its pretty amazing what kind of results you can get from a handset these days. I barely take my Sony camera out with me these days.

Pretty sure a used iPhone 12 (as an example) would be able to do something similar with the added benefit of getting something you'll use longer term and you can get some cash back by selling or exchanging your SE.

Whilst i appreciate what you are saying, i was capturing the lights last night and as the only person there with a decent camera surrounded by phone users. The quality of photo is a different world. The phones could only produce a green blurry smudge.

Not sure on that particular camera in the cold but i would suggest keeping the battery warm. (portable hand warmer in your pocket close to a battery. That said i didn’t bother last night at -28c and the camera and battery performed miles better than internet people told me they would. i was expecting some what of a **** show.

You don’t need super high iso for the lights. 1600 with a 4-6second exposure! get a cheap used tripod to keep it steady.

here are a few of my shots from last night These are all 24mm @F4 1600iso various exposure times.








if you have any questions at all @Scuzi regarding anything with the settings side of it give us a shout

 

[Scuzi]

Can't comment on how the camera will perform at those temps but get a couple of extra batteries as the cold will do a great job of affecting their performance. Keep them well wrapped up and warm, just like yourself and enjoy the trip.

Spare battery on order, coming tomorrow. Thanks!

Whilst i appreciate what you are saying, i was capturing the lights last night and as the only person there with a decent camera surrounded by phone users. The quality of photo is a different world. The phones could only produce a green blurry smudge.

Not sure on that particular camera in the cold but i would suggest keeping the battery warm. (portable hand warmer in your pocket close to a battery. That said i didn’t bother last night at -28c and the camera and battery performed miles better than internet people told me they would. i was expecting some what of a **** show.

You don’t need super high iso for the lights. 1600 with a 4-6second exposure! get a cheap used tripod to keep it steady.

here are a few of my shots from last night These are all 24mm @F4 1600iso various exposure times.
if you have any questions at all @Scuzi regarding anything with the settings side of it give us a shout

Fantastic shots! Thank you for the advice on settings. What kit are you using? I’ve just rented a Fujinon 23mm f/1.4 which should help with capturing the perpetually moving children.

Going by the temperature, I’m guessing you are in Norway? In the first shot, is that a bank of cloud off in the distance or is it just the intensity of the aurora coupled with the long exposure?

Also, one more question. How do you find general photography of places and people in the perpetual low light and dark? Any tips? My current plan is to just whack the ISO up as high as required as I’d rather have noisy pics of the family than blurry ones. I took the camera and kit lens out last night on a walk with kids and about half of the photos were usable for digital sharing and small prints. All of the usable ones were at f/3.5 ISO 6400 or even 12800 as they gave a fast enough shutter speed to freeze the motion. The rest were relatively noise free but they were blurry messes! I’m hoping the f1.4 lens will help a lot here.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

In an unexpected turn, having been offered a pretty good deal, I have acquired a Fujifilm X-T200 with the 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 II. Seems like a great little travel camera with decent high ISO performance.

One question though. I remember from my Canon days that one of the selling points of the weather sealed cameras and lenses was that they performed well in extreme cold. Is this consumer grade Fuji likely to suffer any problems with temperatures below zero down to about -15/-20?

Also, I forgot how much difference a wide aperture can make. Even F/3.5 indoors is requiring some very high ISO and low shutter speeds. The OIS is impressive though, giving fairly sharp results handheld at even 1/2s. I might rent the 23mm f/1.4 or 2.0 given that the destination is going to get about 7-8 hours only of daylight.

You want wide and fast and even then you’re looking at a 10-15 second exposure to capture them, so pack a very steady tripod.

Focus on a terrain feature in the background or at infinity for pure sky shots.

The advantage of having a small camera/lens combo is that you can tuck it away inside your coat right up until you need it.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Whilst i appreciate what you are saying, i was capturing the lights last night and as the only person there with a decent camera surrounded by phone users. The quality of photo is a different world. The phones could only produce a green blurry smudge.

Not sure on that particular camera in the cold but i would suggest keeping the battery warm. (portable hand warmer in your pocket close to a battery. That said i didn’t bother last night at -28c and the camera and battery performed miles better than internet people told me they would. i was expecting some what of a **** show.

You don’t need super high iso for the lights. 1600 with a 4-6second exposure! get a cheap used tripod to keep it steady.

here are a few of my shots from last night These are all 24mm @F4 1600iso various exposure times.








if you have any questions at all @Scuzi regarding anything with the settings side of it give us a shout

Those are great!

 

[FloppyPoppy]

Spare battery on order, coming tomorrow. Thanks!


Fantastic shots! Thank you for the advice on settings. What kit are you using? I’ve just rented a Fujinon 23mm f/1.4 which should help with capturing the perpetually moving children.

Going by the temperature, I’m guessing you are in Norway? In the first shot, is that a bank of cloud off in the distance or is it just the intensity of the aurora coupled with the long exposure?

Also, one more question. How do you find general photography of places and people in the perpetual low light and dark? Any tips? My current plan is to just whack the ISO up as high as required as I’d rather have noisy pics of the family than blurry ones. I took the camera and kit lens out last night on a walk with kids and about half of the photos were usable for digital sharing and small prints. All of the usable ones were at f/3.5 ISO 6400 or even 12800 as they gave a fast enough shutter speed to freeze the motion. The rest were relatively noise free but they were blurry messes! I’m hoping the f1.4 lens will help a lot here.

i’m jealous of your lens i wish i had a 1.4 wide angle with me. Next in my “must save up for and buy” category which unfortunately on my platform even used doesn’t come too cheap.

i do use toward the top end of what i believe is the “prosumer” market a sony a7iv and the lens on these is the 24-105 F4 OSS.

yes the issue of movement in long exposure is a really hard one. It is possible to get a decent shot of people in the foreground however i don’t think with anything over a couple seconds exposure you will see them very sharp, especially cold fidgety children. What i might suggest in your case is take a nice fast sharp photograph with the camera of the family try to pop a phone or two with their torches on behind the camera to light yourselves up. Then take everyone out of the frame and do your long exposure and a little bit of hocus pocus on the computer and your family are tack sharp in front of the aurora. Try to do it staying still first though because it will always look more natural especially if the kids ace the staying still game!

i’m actually in iceland it just got freakishly cold the other night in Reykjanesfolkvangur.

Yes that first photograph is all Aurora no clouds in the sky at all. it was just intense and a long exposure also this was the only one i shot at iso1000 the others are 1600. It was a 6second exposure.

The F1.8 will help a lot. More light simply means better settings elsewhere. Low light is one of the harder things to shoot for me. If your camera can do it what i have done is set an auto Iso range where i can dial in shutter speed, apertures and it will automatically adjust the iso to as high as it want’s within those brackets. if that’s not achievable it will the lower down shutter speed a little to get a brighter shot.

Also you can always remove some noise later in raws but removing it always adds blur so it’s somehow a win/loss situation.

I would be cautious though at night try your camera tonight if you can outside with a few 4-6 seconds exposures pointed right at the darker part of the sky with various ISO settings to see what happens on them. i genuinely believe that with a nice steady tripod and iso 1600-2000 you will be absolutely fine. You may also with a 1.4 only need to shoot 2-4 seconds.

Do you have a tripod? i have a spare home that i no longer use from when i first got into photography if your interested it’s yours for the postage cost unless you are local to manchester ish then you would be welcome to pick it up.

 

[Scuzi]

Top tips! I do have a mini travel tripod which should do the job. Thanks for the very kind offer.

 

[mrgubby]

Last time I was in Iceland I took a Canon 6D and a 2nd hand Samyang 24 f1.4. When I got back I sold the lens for the same I paid for it

Whatever tripod you take has got to able to easily handle the weight of your kit and cope with high winds ( Our car got blown of the road at one point)

 

[ramdrive]

I am off to see the Aurora soon. After watching this video I think I will ditch still cameras for the trip and try some time-lapse videography:-

 

[scotty38]

Last time I was in Iceland I took a Canon 6D and a 2nd hand Samyang 24 f1.4. When I got back I sold the lens for the same I paid for it

Whatever tripod you take has got to able to easily handle the weight of your kit and cope with high winds ( Our car got blown of the road at one point)

Very nice image, looks like Cassiopeia, Snowball Nebula and Andromeda showing up if my bearings do not fail me. Very worthy astro image that is.