Numbers, numbers, numbers.

cymatty

cymatty

cymatty

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South Yorkshire
Now before I start I hope that people understand the question I am asking.

Ok here a stats from a few cars.

Mini Cooper S JCW

BHP 210
0-60 6.6
Top Speed 143
BHP per Ton 187

Mondeo ST220
BHP 220
0-60 6.8
Top Speed 146
BHP per Ton 146

Elise sport 160

BHP 158
0-60 5.2
Top Speed 135
BHP per Ton 217

Saxo VTR
BHP 98
0-60 9.3
Top Speed 117
BHP per Ton 99

Ok so my point is, I thought that power to weight is a big factor in a car performance but from the above it would seem not ( look at the st220 vs JCW), What do these figures tell us about the power delivery of the cars if anything? ANyone driven any of the above who can tell me about the power delivery?

Well for example the first thing I notice is that powere to weight seems to mean nothing for top end speed, it seems for top end grunt you need a lot of power.
 
Those figures don't really mean anything in terms of power delivery, a higher power/weight ratio just means a car is generally faster.

And you're right - weight has no bearing on top speed at all. It's aerodynamic drag and outright power that count. Power needed for high top speeds increases exponentially the faster you go.
 
Yep, weight has nothing to do with top speed, it only affects acceleration. Horsepower, drag and gearing will govern the top speed.

Some of those acceleration figures will be affected by grip too.
 
Well another point the BHP per ton is a lot higher in the JCW, but according to those figures it has a similar 0-60 and top speed. So where does the extra BHP per ton come into play?
 
Ive driven my brothers Saxo VTR whilst my car was at the garage. It feels quite nippy, but maybe thats because its pretty much a tin car with wheels. Id hate to be in a crash in one, its cheap and flimsy on the inside. Its light so handles quite well though.

I thought they were quicker to 60 then those stats suggest. :confused:
 
They both have similar bhp, so similar top speeds

If the mini weighs less you might presume it will handle and accelerate better but its not guaranteed. 0-60 figures arent always that accurate, check them out in person if you can
 
silversurfer said:
They both have similar bhp, so similar top speeds

If the mini weighs less you might presume it will handle and accelerate better but its not guaranteed. 0-60 figures arent always that accurate, check them out in person if you can
Click to expand...

All the figures are from Evo so I presume they are fairly accurate. :)
 
timbob said:
And you're right - weight has no bearing on top speed at all. It's aerodynamic drag and outright power that count. Power needed for high top speeds increases exponentially the faster you go.
Click to expand...
exactly.
when it comes to top speed, all you need is enough power to push the car forward while overcoming the forces that are holding the car back.
now how long it takes to get to it's top speed is a different question altogether. :D
 
also a cars top end has a lot to do with aerodynamics tyre size and so much more, power to weight is more to do with acceleration.
 
Does the JCW need third for 60 or is there another reason why it has a much larger bhp per ton than the ST220, but not a much quicker 0-60?
 
cymatty said:
Does the JCW need third for 60 or is there another reason why it has a much larger bhp per ton than the ST220, but not a much quicker 0-60?
Click to expand...
The standard Cooper S doesn't, wouldn't have thought the JCW does either.
 
Gearing is the main one for top speed, I hear fitting the GT4 (I think) final drive onto mine will take its stop speed upto near 190.
 
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The 0-60s for most cars is now a nearly meaningless statistic and is historic from when cars had maximums around 70-80mph. It is significantly affected by the gearing (a car requiring 2 changes will be slower than one requiring only a single change even with the same power to weight), traction, how quick the gear changes are, how quick and good the launch is, how easy the car is to launch etc. The Elise is quick to 60 as its mid engine layout allows for decent traction off the line (a 911 is even better).

If you look at standing quater times there is a much closer correlation between power to weight and time.
 
L0rdMike said:
Gearing is the main one for top speed, I hear fitting the GT4 I think it is final drive onto mine will make its stop speed upto near 190.
Click to expand...

The theoretical top speed maybe, you would also have to increase the power substantially to be able to do that speed.
 
Alibaba99 said:
If you look at standing quater times there is a much closer correlation between power to weight and time.
Click to expand...

Does anyone have a qtr mile time for the above cars?

Well found one
15.29 Dangerous ST220
 
Hi there

No doubt the reason the Mini is not much quicker of the mark over the ST220 is no doubt weight over the front wheels.

I'd imagine the ST220 engine is a lot heavier having 6 cylinders and so when it comes to mashing the loud pedal from a standstill it just goes with little to no wheelspin.

Wheras the mini been so much lighter as it engine weighs less been 4 cylinders probably struggles not to spin the wheels.

You need to drive the cars to appreciate the differences.

Also try getting more stats such as 0-100mph which is a much better figure in terms of how well a car performs. 1/4 miles with terminal speeds also give you a better idea. In-gear acceleration times are good but not so reliable as there are so many different ways of doing them.

My betting is the mini is no doubt a lot quicker accelerating in the 30-110mph dash over the ST220 but because of the ST220's large engine expect it to be quicker above 120mph no doubt. :)
 
Mini JCW

0-60 mph:6.3 sec
0-100 mph:16.3 sec
¼ mile:14.9 sec @ 96 mph
Top Speed:143 mph

Mondeo ST220

0-60mph 7.28
0-100mph 18.77
1.4 Mile 15.65 @91.33

Saxo VTR

Citroen Saxo VTR
0-60mph 9.45
0-100mph 30.08
1/4 mile 17.95 @ 77.25


Lotus Elise S1 Sport 160
0-60mph 5.32
0-100mph 14.22
1.4 mile 13.76 @98.36
 
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cymatty said:
Mini JCW

0-60 mph:6.3 sec
0-100 mph:16.3 sec
¼ mile:14.9 sec @ 96 mph
Top Speed:143 mph

Mondeo ST220

0-60mph 7.28
0-100mph 18.77
1.4 Mile 15.65 @91.33

Saxo VTR

Citroen Saxo VTR
0-60mph 9.45
0-100mph 30.08
1/4 mile 17.95 @ 77.25


Lotus Elise S1 Sport 160
0-60mph 5.32
0-100mph 14.22
1.4 mile 13.76 @98.36
Click to expand...

There you go!!
The 0-100mph and 1/4 mile reveals the mini is actually quite a bit quicker than an ST220. :)
 
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